Guys,

A few questions if you don't mind.

1. How are the ways supposed to be lubricated on Monarch Ser.60? What exactly the apron oil lubricates?

2. Monarch manual mentiones that the filters of the oil pumps should be replaced regularly. Unfortunately, it doesn't describe the procedure. I remember reading Harry's thread that made me think that filter replacement is very far from being a trivial job. Am I mistaken? Is there an easy way to replace filters?

3. About glass gauges and oil quantity... I completely emptied and cleaned the headstock. Specs call for 5 gal of oil. After about 3 1/2 gal the oil reached the midglass level (as viewed from the inside of the headstock). However, when I looked at the glass gauge from the outside, the oil level was below the mark. I added more oil (up to about 4 1/2 gal total). The gauge level didn't move despite the fact the oil was much higher than the glass well (as viewed from the inside of the gear box). To me this looked like an excess, and there was a leak from around the spindle. I cannot understand why the manual calls for 5 gal of oil when about 3 1/2 gal fills the headstock. Also, I cannot explain why the oil level as seen in the glass gauge is low despite the fact it's higher than the glass well. It doesn't look like an air bubble, and it doesn't change when lathe works.

4. Another thing that is unclear to me is the headstock pump operation gauge. What am I supposed to see there when the pump operates? I don't see any movement there at all. How can I make sure the headstock and apron pumps work?

Thank you.

Mike

Just spoke to Scott (Monarch). I'd like to hear your comments and corrections. Here are his answers:

1. Apron oil is supposed to be pumped onto the ways. 99% of the time when there is no oil visible on the ways, the reason is either clogged oil passages in the carriage or clogged metering units. One needs to remove the carriage to check and blow the passages and replace metering units. While the carriage is removed, one can check if the apron pump pumps oil by rotating the carriage wheel on the apron.

Replacement of the apron pump filter is easy: remove the sump located the lower left portion of the apron and the pump will be found inside of it. There is no need to disassemble the apron.

2. Replacement of the filter in the headstock pump is far from trivial and would require a major disassembly including the spindle removal [h-mmm, I don't think Harry removed the spindle before removing the pump. Or did you Harry?). In reality, the filter never requires replacement if the oil changes were regular. Much more frequent cause of the pump not pumping oil is its accidental disengagement from the cam mechanism that operates the pump. In those cases a simple re-engagement is all what is needed.

As for checking the pump work, one can move its cam by hand (using a suitable instrument) and see if there is oil flow from the tubing. The oil pump window located on the face of the headstock should display dripping of oil when the spindle rotates.

2. The headstock oil level should be at the middle or just above the glass well (but below the spindle level). Clogged "ventilation" holes around the window will prevent proper indication, and the window is better be replaced.

Spindle does not need to be removed to remove the headstock pump. The pump is attached to the casting, or at least accessible for removal, on the right rear of the headstock where the oil fill port is located. See post #31 in "Another New Toy".
Harry

Thank you, Harry. By the way, is it really possible to move the cam of the pump without any disassembly (to check if it pumps oil prior to removal)?

Was removal of the apron pump an easy procedure? Will it require anything more than just unscrewing the sump (bottom part of the apron)?

The pumps are bench tested for operation before reinstallation. All the meter units get replaced, and all the lines are checked for flow clearance by squirting WD-40 through them. Then everything is put back together, oil added and I run the machine. I does take some time to recharge the entire system, and I've manually turned the spindle, but that's the hard way.
The apron pump comes off easily. Getting to the meter units under the saddle, that's a whole different story. It's in ANT.
Harry

You see, Harry, my ways remain dry, so I assume I have no choice but to remove the carriage. Do you see any other approach I might take in this situation? Something less dramatic?

No other way, unless you're a magician.
Harry

My 16 CW had dry ways, I pulled the saddle and the apron. The main feed line from the junction block to the metering block had a 3/4 long hole chewed through it from the rack bull gear at the inside top of the apron and three lines had holes from the cross slide drive gear where it enters the carriage. I was very glad I checked. The headstock metering units were plugged when I checked those. Fifty eight years is a long time to expect everything to work I guess. Since redoing the apron/carriage I got more oil than Kuwait!

My main supply line in the carriage of my 18CBB had a hole in it along with one of the lines going to the crossfeed ways. There was also one of the metering devices turned backwards.

Thank you, guys.

I completed the headstock lube system cleaning, found answers to all my OP questions, cleaned gear box and apron sump, adjusted speed shifters and now am waiting for the gear box and apron metering valves. Ordered some felt for the pumps too. I've decided on polyester filter felt sold my McMaster. Any comments on this?

I wonder how to reliably check metering units #00. The holes are so small, that I cannot be 100% sure they're clean enough. With #5 units in the headstock it wasn't a problem since the holes there were much larger.

By the way, does anybody has a data on the actial size of the holes for the different valve ##? I know the opening doubles for each successive #, but the diameters remain a mystery.

P.S. Can you recommend a supplier for misc. smaller Monarch parts? Something like gaskets, way wipers, etc. Or I have to order those directly from Monarch?

My experience is with the 10 EE, not the Series 60, however there's enough common ground to address a couple of your questions.

The pump filter isn't a big deal, if oil can get through it fast enough and have the wooly buggers strained out you're good.

You're waiting on meter units (presume they're on order) but seem to be asking how to evaluate 00 meter units. If they're new it's a waste of time, if they're old it's still a waste of time. They're inexpensive and have tiny passages. Replacement is the best option unless you don't value your time much.

"I know the opening doubles for each successive #, but the diameters remain a mystery."

Each number increase of a Bijur (now Bijur Delimon) meter unit doubles the flowrate, not an opening, it's a big difference.

I'm not aware of any orifice size data being available. The internal construction isn't a simple orifice, it uses a pin restrictor (a clever, inexpensive way to control low flowrates) to create an annular orifice. This link shows the internal configuration and other information about them:

http://www.bijurdelimon.com/fileadmi...r-Units_DS.pdf

A number of folks have made their own wipers with wool felt purchased from McMaster-Carr. If you make your own you need to know how much compression to design them for. I didn't, got mine from Monarch. The old laminated wipers were superior but they're not made anymore.

It's the same with gaskets, either make your own or purchase them from Monarch. If you make your own duplicate both thickness and every opening faithfully. I don't know about the Series 60 but on the 10 EE inattention to gasket detail would be a smoldering disaster.

There's not enough demand for these small items for other sources to be viable so they don't exist.

In the end I purchased wipers and made gaskets. Your mileage may vary.

Thank you, Dave.

Got a quote from Monarch. About half a thou for way wipers and two small gaskets. No comments.

For some strange reason, I'm not surprised. When I bought the wipers for my 12" CK 7 years ago, I got prices on the wipers for my EE and 16" CY. Needless to say, I cherry picked the wipers I wanted. When it came time for wipers on the SE 60, I didn't get any prices,I just made them from felt.
Harry

That's exactly what I'm going to do with the wipers and gaskets.
Insane...