Sjogren Hardinge 2A-D3 for Monarch 10ee--Runout problems

I just purchased a used 2a-d3 chuck and mounted in this afternoon and had about .0025 runout less than an inch from the collet. I then indicated the collet taper and showed roughly the same. I disassembled the chuck and it is basically two halves, one with the d1-3 taper and one with the collet taper. They mesh up right where the handwheel is. I mounted half of the chuck on the lathe and still have the runout issues. The Monarch spindle has no runout, the sjogren chuck has .003 runout radially directly where it meets the lathe spindle. There is also runout on the face of this half of the chuck, where the other half bolts on.

The d1-3 mount had no interference and would just fall off when the cams were loosened.

I marked the face of this half for the high spot and the low spot, chucked it in another lathe so the d1-3 face (opposite where I marked) could be cut. I indicated it and the high spot was still high and the low was still low. I took a skim facing cut, just enough that it would cut all the way around. I'm guessing about .002 on the high side to .0005 on the low side. I then remounted it and now have some interference with the D1-3 taper. It mounts, snugs up and takes a nice pull to get it to come off. I do not think there there is a gap on the D1-3 face.

I still have runout on the face (and radially) of this half of the chuck. My question is should I try to correct the runout on the D1-3 mounting side, or is it safe to take a light facing cut on the face of the chuck that mates to the other half? I am concerned that even if I reface this surface, the other aligning parts may still be off? I have not touched the actual D1-3 taper and am afraid to do that. If I take any more off the face portion of the D1-3 I will most likely have to address the taper in order to get a flush fit.

I was hoping for .0005 runout or less with this chuck. Very disappointing.

You are not going to like this advice but here goes. I bought a Sjogren just like you and just like you had runout issues. I pulled the thing apart and hand scraped the mating halves and the back of the mount that meets with the Monarch spindle mating face. I opted to scrape instead of a facing cut and it only required a finesse to achieve a light press on the taper..With a good Hardinge collet, I get about .0002+ runout. I understand that those chucks should be marked when they are pulled apart from their rear half. They can be put together wrong and the runout will suffer.

My D1-3 also had too much runout when I got it. I chucked it backwards on a turned-in-place bar and re-turned the D1-3 face and taper. It came out about as perfect as I can measure with my tenths DTI. I admit there was a bit of luck involved in having a really good 2J collet to grab the bar.

brushpile90 said:

I just purchased a used 2a-d3 chuck and mounted in this afternoon and had about .0025 runout less than an inch from the collet. I then indicated the collet taper and showed roughly the same. I disassembled the chuck and it is basically two halves, one with the d1-3 taper and one with the collet taper. They mesh up right where the handwheel is. I mounted half of the chuck on the lathe and still have the runout issues. The Monarch spindle has no runout, the sjogren chuck has .003 runout radially directly where it meets the lathe spindle. There is also runout on the face of this half of the chuck, where the other half bolts on.

The d1-3 mount had no interference and would just fall off when the cams were loosened.

I marked the face of this half for the high spot and the low spot, chucked it in another lathe so the d1-3 face (opposite where I marked) could be cut. I indicated it and the high spot was still high and the low was still low. I took a skim facing cut, just enough that it would cut all the way around. I'm guessing about .002 on the high side to .0005 on the low side. ....

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I'm pretty sure that modifying an item as you describe precludes your use of eBay's return policy...

My D1-3 also had too much runout when I got it. I chucked it backwards on a turned-in-place bar and re-turned the D1-3 face and taper. It came out about as perfect as I can measure with my tenths DTI. I admit there was a bit of luck involved in having a really good 2J collet to grab the bar.

Click to expand...

Great idea, I can't believe I didn't think of this as I used the same technique on an old 4 jaw last summer. It aligned the jaws much better, but was so wobbly I had to junk the whole thing. I'm guessing it hit the floor a few times and was beyond saving.

Jim McIntyre said:

I'm pretty sure that modifying an item as you describe precludes your use of eBay's return policy...

Click to expand...

You are absolutely right. I will be unable to return the chuck to you. In my blind fury last night I was making irrational decisions, one of which was sending an email to the seller, apparently you, as I never mentioned eBay or returning on this forum. I didn't even think of returning the chuck until after I had taken the facing cut, shame on me. It is a beautiful chuck on the outside, but that rarely matters when machining is concerned. I will keep the chuck and hopefully get it within acceptable tolerance.

Knowing that you are a machinist of some sort, hobby or full time, and not a "swap meet" trader is a little disheartening as I'm guessing you knew the chuck was out of tolerance. Even without a 2j collet set I'm betting you indicated the chuck just for fun as most machinists would do.

I really hope that's not the case, but that's where my mind takes me.

Either way, one more project for me to tackle. Buyer be ware as they say.

I don't think I ever measured the chuck runout. I never made a determination it was 'out of tolerance'. I spent a lot of time searching for a 2J collet set for it, and finally decided it wasn't going to happen. That's the only reason I sold it.

Jim,

No hard feelings, I was able to do what rklopp said this morning and get it to within acceptable limits for me around .0008. A brand new collet doing the same procedure may bring it back to under .0005. No worries on my end. The inside looks beautiful with minimal wear. Thanks

That's great Brushpile. Thanks for letting me know it all worked out. The experience and capabilities of some of the members here are really impressive. I hope the chuck gives you many years of turning bliss...

Well I wasn't quite happy with the taper I had cut for the d1-3 recess in the chuck, so I decided to do it again. I adjusted the compound using the sin of a 7.25 degree angle or an indicator movement of .063 over 1/2" along a test bar. Once set I recut the taper then refaced the end using a measurement tool I made. I finished up and mounted it on the spindle and got just the right amount of taper contact. Using a 7/8, 1/2, and 5/16 collet there is virtually no runout within an inch of the chuck. I was using a last word .001 indicator and the needle barely moved, more like wobbled a little bit. I will have to break out the tenths indicator to check it for sure but I am guessing that TIR is down to .0002-.0004. I feel like it is almost back to new. Any way I am very happy with the results. Thanks rklopp for sparking the idea. Everyone seems to run scared from cutting spindle taper fits, but if you break it down, it's not that hard at all. If I were to do it again I would make a quick mock spindle male taper using a spare backplate to confirm a good fit and then use that against the backplate I was cutting. My measurement method was crude but seemed to work, a dummy spindle would have been much easier.

Thanks for the help.