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Is there any information resource for larger Monarch lathes?

Jaxian

Stainless
Joined
Feb 24, 2013
Location
Santa Cruz
I know there is lots of information for 10EE's but in looking around even on lathes.co.uk there is only a very basic amount of information on the larger models.

I am talking about rpms, English/metric threading, spindle bore size, tailstock tapers size, bed width sizing, rapids, and on and on. All the little detail stuff that would be great to know.

I have deduced a lot from just endlessly trawling here and that's a great start. But for instance I would like to know the exact difference between a 60/61/62/610/612/613/614 like the years they were made and all the other stuff above. Do some have large build differences like roller bearings or helical gears or not and the like.

Surprised with the popularity of these machines that there doesn't seem to be an easily find-able repository of technical information on them.

Any ideas as to where to look would be much appreciated. Want to be able to narrow my search a bit. Like I can write off the "dynashift" ones right off the bat. I just don't have the space for a 3' square hydraulic fluid box and motor stand in addition to the lathe main body. Just gets too large for my limited space.

Thanks guys.
 
They all stem from these - all precision class Timken spindle bearings, all helical gears that do not move but are "shifted" by means of stout dog clutches. From 12" CK to 36" NN
 

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Thanks for the info John. I was thinking about stuff like I have seen people on here talking about the 614 and 613 being "little versions" of the 612. Looking at pictures they look pretty much exactly the same. A 1610 is a 1610, a 2013 is a 2013 etc.

Or is it a case of like the Type "D" and "E" American Pacemaker where even though they are both 20" rated swing a Type "E" is a lot bigger than the Type "D". This I found out by reading that manual you posted a long time ago. That was filled with great information.

I was just kind of looking for that same type of thing on the big Monarchs. A way to compare them, one to another directly spec for spec and compare size and footprint and standard features. I love my 10EE but not being able to thread metric is a pain. I will buy a set of change gears from Zahnrod as soon as I can justify the cost but if I could have afforded a standard/metric I would have bought one from the get go. But I knew what to look for and what years that started being even an option.

For the big guys it's all just guesswork at this point. Even a few manuals from different ones would help. Don't think I saw more than that one over on Vintage Machinery. Thanks for any help.
 
The 60/61 are a pre war design that was introduced right at the end of WWll, the series 62 was the small Dynashift, the 610-614 were follow on to the Dynashift with manual range shifting. The 13EE, 1000EE and series 70 were all DC drive with 3 back gear ranges.

I have a 13EE and a 2013 series 62, both have 2 1/8 spindle through holes and D1-6 spindles. The 13EE/1000EE were built on a series 61 bed. The 610 was built on the 62 bed, IIRC John L said the 612/613 were built on a narrowed bed compared to the 62/610. The 613/614 were available with inch/metric gear boxes, the 614 may all be I/M.

The one gripe most have with the big old Monarch lathes is the small spindle through hole. The Letter series and 62 are the heaviest of the bigger lathes. These are all the tool room type lathes, the 80/90 series are just monsters.

Steve
 
Surprised with the popularity of these machines that there doesn't seem to be an easily find-able repository of technical information on them.

But there is. Monarch Lathes has the files for each lathe "as built", right down to the fine details of special-ordered options and modifications.

Furnish the Serial number, buy a manual, they can tell you when it shipped, to whom, and with what options and initial workholding and accessories. A 10EE manual, for example, also includes the basic brochure cut-pages covering OTHER Monarch lathes

Reading brochures in the here and now so as to place an order for the lathe of your choice - perhaps fifty years and more out of production?

Bring enough money, they can go find enough parts - have others made to drawings from scratch - to build you one and QC it to brand-new specifications.

It's part of what they do.

Rebuild Program | Monarch Lathes

:)

Oh.. and as with any OTHER business employing real people with families and mortgages and grocery bills.. your own one included.. they DO have to charge for their work.

You wants "free"? You are in it, right here on PM.
 
Funny thing about the bigger holes. I assume the lathe makers sort of referred to ASME/ASA standards - and possibly were retarded in doing so

My ASA/ASME B5.9 Spindle Noses is from 1967 - and still shows the max for D1-6" as American Standard 200 taper - way too small to suit a 2 1/8 thru hole

The "normal" for D1-6" is MT5
 
Funny thing about the bigger holes. I assume the lathe makers sort of referred to ASME/ASA standards - and possibly were retarded in doing so

My ASA/ASME B5.9 Spindle Noses is from 1967 - and still shows the max for D1-6" as American Standard 200 taper - way too small to suit a 2 1/8 thru hole

The "normal" for D1-6" is MT5

Folks do what they gotta do, though. The MT5 on the HS end of the HBX-360-BC's through-bored TS ram has but about a 30-31 mm bore back of it. Counterbored straight - I think - at the TS-ward end, so I'm not sharp on the actual ID 'til I raise interest enough to drag an Indical or bore gage out of hiding.

MT5 at the HS? Not yet sure. ISTR one of the options vs the Cazeneuve proprietary mount was the scarcer D1-5.
 
Certainly not a Monarch, so I don't want to drag this thread too far from the original topic. I've got an import with D1-6 chuck mount, spindle bore something like 2.06 or 2.09", and an MT6 (stub) internal taper. This is a fairly common modern configuration, and from John Oder's comment above there's probably not any more slack to take up in a D1-6 chuck mount.
 
Certainly not a Monarch, so I don't want to drag this thread too far from the original topic. I've got an import with D1-6 chuck mount, spindle bore something like 2.06 or 2.09", and an MT6 (stub) internal taper. This is a fairly common modern configuration, and from John Oder's comment above there's probably not any more slack to take up in a D1-6 chuck mount.

I'd surmise your spindle bore taper is also relieved for a spell right under the inner ends of the camlocks. 10EE is that way.

A minor gotcha can ensue. Tapered goods being inserted by tired folk striking the edge back of the relief where the taper resumes can raise burrs. Itty-bitty ones. Check for those now and then, lest they mess with fit and accurate positioning in a sorta sneaky way.
 
Interestingly, I just removed some itty-bitty burrs from the spindle after removing a MT6-MT4 adapter this weekend. I believe I was sloppy about cleaning the taper when I inserted the adapter the last time I was turning between centers and embedded some small swarf. I've only got a short triangular scraper, but fortunately the adapter is pretty short, so I could reach the crud.

But the taper in this machine is a continuous conical surface, with no relief. It's probably not full-length MT6 (although with a 2+" through bore, it may be closer to full length than I thought, as small end of MT6 is 2.116"), and there is some sort of lip or groove I've never bothered to inspect at the bottom of the taper where it joins up with the through bore.
 
But the taper in this machine is a continuous conical surface, with no relief.

Well it is not a D1-(x) then. Camlocks need clearance.

As MT rather than Jarno, not likely to be a Monarch, either.

If a lip, it is "probably" larger as to ID than the taper would be if extended, and there's mayhap a relief or groove just ahead of it?

I'd guess these "features" have silently been protecting us all along.
 
Well it is not a D1-(x) then. Camlocks need clearance.
HAHAHA. :crazy: It most certainly is a D1-6 chuck mount. I've got about a half dozen standard D1-6 chucks, faceplates, and dog drivers from multiple sources that fit it just fine.

I will cut you some slack, and assume that I did not correctly envision what you meant when you said "your spindle bore taper is also relieved for a spell right under the inner ends of the camlocks." To me that sounds like the inside taper equivalent to, for example, NMTB50 toolholder tapers being relieved rather than continuous cones, so that there is bearing at the large and small ends, but not all the way between them.

If that's what you meant, then, nope, not relieved, and I see no reason for it to be relieved, given that the camlocks are well outside the area of the spindle taper. "Camlocks need clearance" does not imply "so they cut away the inside of the spindle bore".

If that's not what you meant, please clarify.

As MT rather than Jarno, not likely to be a Monarch, either.
Seems to me that I rather explicitly stated it was not a Monarch, in post #8 where I first mentioned it.
 
To me that sounds like the inside taper equivalent to, for example, NMTB50 toolholder tapers being relieved rather than continuous cones, so that there is bearing at the large and small ends, but not all the way between them.
Yes, exactly that. The D1-(six inch) is of course much larger in diameter than a D1-(three inch), so there is surely enough meat to set them in blind holes. Not so on the smaller sizes.

Post 8 - just now went and read it, had started with "certainly not a monarch.."
I moved on to other reading right at that point, first go.

Not that I'm prejudiced, but it was in the monarch forum, so.... never saw it was D1-6..

:)
 








 
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