Turret attachment: Which style 10EE does it fit?

Derek Smalls · Aug 19, 2015

A friend of mine approached me about a turret attachment he is wanting to sell. It is an original Monarch(not an Enco) attachment, without power feed. He was thinking I may be interested in modifying it for use on my L&S Hi-Turn, but I really don't have the time, money or desire to get into another project right now. I agreed to post a "For Sale" thread for it here, and try to help him sell it, but he doesn't know very much about it and I figure we better get our ducks in a row before I wrongly advertise it and cause confusion and frustration. I know different style/date machines have different center heights. Are there other differences as well? Width between ways, position of V way relative to spindle, or any other factors which would make it fit only one series of machines? Can I simply lay a straight edge on the flat way mating surface and measure center height of turret or will this not answer all questions? I would like to be able to describe what it is/what machine it will fit as accurately as possible before I try to sell it for him. I will try to get over to see it again tomorrow and get some pics. Any help is much appreciated.

Hodge · Aug 20, 2015

I may have interest if it will fit a square dial. pm sent...thanks Hodge

Edit: I can't seem to get a pm out on this phone(same prob a few others have had) will touch base from laptop....thanks

Derek Smalls · Aug 20, 2015

Ok, so to keep things fair, Hodge has first refusal once we figure out what it will fit, come up with a price, and a way to ship it if need be. At this point it is far from being sold, so I could still use any help you can offer to identify it. I'll be going to pick it up later today so I can take measurements, pictures, and answer any questions that come up. Thanks.

Derek Smalls · Aug 20, 2015

I picked it up and have it in my truck. I'll wait till I have help to unload it tomorrow, so I'll get some pics then. I did measure the center height. I laid a parallel on the surface which sits on the flat way, and got 6-1/2" from it to centerline of turret. I'm not sure what that means in terms of which style EE it will fit, but I'm sure one of you could tell me, as well as whatever else I should be checking.

thermite · Aug 20, 2015

Derek Smalls said:
I picked it up and have it in my truck. I'll wait till I have help to unload it tomorrow, so I'll get some pics then. I did measure the center height. I laid a parallel on the surface which sits on the flat way, and got 6-1/2" from it to centerline of turret. I'm not sure what that means in terms of which style EE it will fit, but I'm sure one of you could tell me, as well as whatever else I should be checking.

Well 'trade' swing aside, 'actual' swing is usually defined by the circle that will 'just' clear the inner edges of the ways. I have no info as to what that means off the flats, but it 'sounds as if' this turret may be for some Monarch other-than ANY 10EE.

Probably have to seek input from a Pilgrim that actually has one or the other to measure in a like manner. Or a BETTER manner that is realistically applicable at both ends of the internet without rectal eversions and a metrology lab.

Mine IS an Enco, KNOWN to have NOT come off a(ny) Monarch, and not yet even fitted, so that possible, not certain 'heads up' is all I can offer for now.

Bill

Derek Smalls · Aug 20, 2015

thermite said:
Well 'trade' swing aside, 'actual' swing is usually defined by the circle that will 'just' clear the inner edges of the ways. I have no info as to what that means off the flats, but it 'sounds as if' this turret may be for some Monarch other-than ANY 10EE.

Probably have to seek input from a Pilgrim that actually has one or the other to measure in a like manner.

I'm thinking it would be easy enough for anyone who has a 10EE in close proximity to measure the height of the spindle or tailstock centerline, off the tailstock flat way. It could be as simple as holding a scale firmly on the flat way surface, and then measuring up from the bottom of the scale to center point of a center with another scale or dial caliper.
Bill, I'm a bit confused as to why you are thinking it is not from a 10EE. The machine swings about 12", so I'd expect the center height to be in the ballpark of six and change inches from the flat. I could very well be missing something, I haven't run a 10EE in years, and I didn't exactly live on the machine when I did, so I'm no expert. I could also be stating things in a confusing way, so we could be talking about two different things. Thanks.

thermite · Aug 20, 2015

Derek Smalls said:
the bottom of the scale to center point of a center with another scale or dial caliper.

Guess I can go downstairs and do that easily enough. Ignorant steel scale should be close.

Reason I threw the flag was that for a 12 1/2" circle that clears the edges of the bedways AND the subtended arc that extends DOWN between them, the VERTICAL height above flats, which are higher-up, would be expected to be LESS than 6 1/4"

You've reported 6 1/2".

Unless that was a radial, not plumb measurement?

Since each of us has but HALF the goods, 10EE here, turret there, mebbe we should BOTH go measure sumthin' (again)..

Still wants confirmation by a person who has BOTH - and assembled - to be certain.

Back in a bit...

Bill

Derek Smalls · Aug 20, 2015

I knew I could count on you Bill. Thanks a lot! I double checked, 6-1/2" on the nose, as best I as I can measure it.

thermite · Aug 20, 2015

Derek Smalls said:
I knew I could count on you Bill. Thanks a lot! I double checked, 6-1/2" on the nose, as best I as I can measure it.

Here's what I have - measurements appeared to 'hit the line' on a common scale, so I assumed they would do and did not dig-out anything more complicated - certainly not the ten-millionths Hamilton.

10EE S/N 17120, ordered DEC 41, shipped SEP 42 is an 'old height' round-dial AFAIK

- Plumb height of centreline above working, not relieved, flats is 6"

- radial from centreline to inner edge of forward flat way is 6 1/2"

- radial from centreline to most-intrusive edge of rear smaller vee-way is ~ 6 3/8"

This, with a smidge of windage, is the hard-limiter behind the nameplates " Actual swing 12.5 " (a radius not less than 6 1/4")

Now . before charging away and stating that the turret's 6 1/2" vs my 10EE's 6" plumb height makes the turret a definitive fit for all 'new height' 10EE?

I don't actually remember if the 'new height' lift 'in the sand' and/or by shim plate was 1/2" or only 1/4". Never had to care.

Further, I do not recall if the CLAIMED 'Actual' swing was increased above 12.5" even for the machines that had the extra space of approx 13". That didn't affect ME, either.

That info will, OTOH be of-record in PM's threads in more than one place.

Gots to go and put tools away and outten the shop lights lest I forget for the rest of the week.. or month..

Beat me to finding that confirming info?

Bill

Derek Smalls · Aug 20, 2015

Thanks again Bill. So off I go into the depths of the search feature. I wouldn't be betting on my finding anything first. For one thing you've got a good bit more time here than I do, fiddling with the search feature and such. I still haven't figured out any of the subtleties of the search feature here. Usually seems I get results relating to anything but what I was looking for. Then again I'm not the most computer savvy kid in the class so that may have a lot to do with it. I usually use Google, especially when I'm in a rush, and that brings me back here, just to a thread that actually helps me, rather than a thread that I wind up reading through because it's interesting but is no help at all to my original problem.

Derek Smalls · Aug 20, 2015

Just found this: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-tooling-configurations-100648/
Post #11

Whatever the case, the actual swing, as built, is stamped on the machines serial number plate.

The steadies and the tailstocks differ in the height of their bases by 0.5000".

thermite · Aug 20, 2015

Derek Smalls said:
Just found this: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/monarch-lathes/10ee-tooling-configurations-100648/
Post #11

Whatever the case, the actual swing, as built, is stamped on the machines serial number plate.

The steadies and the tailstocks differ in the height of their bases by 0.5000".

Headstock as well, of course. It shares the vee-way that the TS uses.

And you are off to the races.

Turret should fit all EXCEPT 'low height' early-days round-dial 10EE, piggyback exciter, earlier-still inline exciter, or the now-rarer-still Sundstrand hydraulic drive ones.

Should be good for LATE 'new-height' round-dial, all square-dial, be they MG, WiaD, Module drive, or VFD'ed.

Or so I believe as-at current PM server timestamp.

Bill

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