I have a desire to own a Monarch 10EE primarily because it was the machine used in college many years ago but also because they are just plain cool looking. I'm not a machinist by trade but after retiring as a mechanical engineer I've ventured into wood and metal working hobbies. I have a Bridgeport mill and the Monarch seems like it would be a good addition to my shop. How can I get started in finding the right machine for me? What years are better than others? What price can I expect to pay? Etc?
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Want a Monarch 10EE
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rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Get the newest one you can find with lots of tooling.
!970's. Single oil level sight glass in the headstock.
Expect to pay $15,000 to $20,000.
!970's. Single oil level sight glass in the headstock.
Expect to pay $15,000 to $20,000.
What makes one made in the '70s better than one in the '50s?
Not gonna be close to wore out yet.
rke[pler
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 19, 2002
- Location
- Peralta, NM USA
While it's less likely to have as much wear I would point out that a 50's 10EE from a tool room would have a lot less wear than a 70's machine from production. Naturally I bought a 50's 10EE from production, so I'm not one to complain loudly.
I'd suggest looking around at a lot of 10EEs, maybe visiting folks to see theirs and get a feel for the lathes before making a choice. Get a good feeling for the lathe and how it should feel. My choice would be a lathe with a bunch of tooling and some wear over a lower wear lathe with no tooling. Having to buy a decent 3 jaw, 4 jaw, center rest, follower rest, tool post and tailstock tooling is going to land you in the 2K area if you pick them up individually, but for some reason they're often almost thrown into the deal when buying the lathe they were used with.
I'd focus on lathes with a lot of cosmetic wear, and look for one with little real wear on the bed. Ignore any with a Rustoleum Rebuild.
rklopp
Diamond
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2001
- Location
- Redwood City, CA USA
With patience, you should be able to land one, not badly worn, with tooling, for a lot less than $15-20k. For ~$6k I got a 1967 Modular from Craigslist or PM, I forget which, well-tooled, with near-zero bed and crosslide wear, but with a tailstock needing the ram replaced and bore honed. I guess that's a testament to the auto-lube system. It sure does pee out a lot of way oil, but I'd rather that than the opposite.
There is a nice one on eBay right now 1971 Monarch
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
Not only "nice" - the rare 30" c-to-c model.
Among other "pluses"? The base-casting of the Modular drive units is the most spacious in the right places to support large 3-P motors, (7.5 to 10 HP) IF a person wanted to convert to VFD.
And... we already have a thread proving one need not convert:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-10ee-modular-332092-post2932496/#post2932496
Sooo... the GE KinaMatic 5 HP Dee Cee motor runs just fine on Eurotherm/Parker-SSD DC Drive + ripple filter inductor.
"If I knew, then, what I know, now" department, this one 10EE cudda replaced either/both of my older, sadder 20" c-to-c, "round dial" 10EE....and I'd not have needed to purchase the Cazeneuve HBX-360-BC for its approx 30" c-to-c daylight.
Well.. may be kidding meself. The Cazeneuve is a VERY interesting machine in its own right, so...
WILLEO6709
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2001
- Location
- WAPELLO, IA USA
It varies with accessoreis what you pay, and if you get a "" rebuilder"/ fixer upper you can get them for cheap. The main iron is always good, if you have the desire and ability to fix the electrical issues that always arise they can be had for way less than $5k, albeit you may have to stalk ebay for the chucks, toolposts, drill chucks, collets, closers, etc. It depends how deep your pockets are and what you desire. A rebuilder often holds as good a tolerance as most can measure, if you have to have perfection you are going to pay for it. Its like buying a hennesey over a regular corvette. Perfection costs money.
If I had the green it would not be there.LOLNot only "nice" - the rare 30" c-to-c model.
Among other "pluses"? The base-casting of the Modular drive units is the most spacious in the right places to support large 3-P motors, (7.5 to 10 HP) IF a person wanted to convert to VFD.
And... we already have a thread proving one need not convert:
http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...-10ee-modular-332092-post2932496/#post2932496
Sooo... the GE KinaMatic 5 HP Dee Cee motor runs just fine on Eurotherm/Parker-SSD DC Drive + ripple filter inductor.
"If I knew, then, what I know, now" department, this one 10EE cudda replaced either/both of my older, sadder 20" c-to-c, "round dial" 10EE....and I'd not have needed to purchase the Cazeneuve HBX-360-BC for its approx 30" c-to-c daylight.
Well.. may be kidding meself. The Cazeneuve is a VERY interesting machine in its own right, so...
WILLEO6709
Diamond
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2001
- Location
- WAPELLO, IA USA
I rather like the 20 inch c-c of the standard run of the mill 10ee. No walking end to end,most everything within reach... most you have to do is 1 step forward or back.....if you want a real workout try running a large long bed lathe on long parts.... you'll wear out a pedometer.
The 30 inch 10ee is a odd animal- if it had a bigger spindle through hole I think it woulda caught on as a more universal machine. Thats all I can really say is a monarch downside- but the larger through hole / mount/ chuck and 4000 rpm don't go together. It was purpose made for its niche.... and does well at it. Don't be fooled into thinking its a general toolroom lathe- the 600's were that I think.
The 30 inch 10ee is a odd animal- if it had a bigger spindle through hole I think it woulda caught on as a more universal machine. Thats all I can really say is a monarch downside- but the larger through hole / mount/ chuck and 4000 rpm don't go together. It was purpose made for its niche.... and does well at it. Don't be fooled into thinking its a general toolroom lathe- the 600's were that I think.
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
Surely, they can do. Cazeneuve HBX-360 has about the same RPM range, used MUCH larger D1- mounts as options to their proprietary mount.
But there you have it.
Cazeneuve only had the market & resources for about a third as many models of lathe as Monarch Machine Tool produced, so HAD to have more "overlap" in function (and they did, after all, sell rather a lot of HB series lathes between French and Japanese, Spanish, etc. production facilities..).
+1
60/61/6XX "toolroom" models gave up very, very little in pragmatically USEFUL precision to a 10EE for a rather more useful gain in work-envelope flexibility.
Now .. if one were to cross-breed the best features of.. Hendey T&G and Cazeneuve threading, Monarch, Hendey, Rivett, Axelson T&G, hell-for-stout, beds, bases, wide range drive systems, what might we get as pups?
Mebbe a late-production Smart & Brown.. or even the elusive Nebel Microturn, and with ATW or Lodge & Shipley "tool steel" bed wear strips?
Fox? Here there be pigeons... Oh..... wait... "CNC Machining Centers" have roasted and sold 'em off as Cornish hens arredy.
BobRenz
Stainless
- Joined
- Jun 30, 2012
- Location
- Minnesota, USA
You can spend as much for tooling as for the bare lathe, so try to get one that's really well equipped - taper turning, 3 & 4 jaw chucks, steady rest, follower rest, collets, tool holders, and anything else that's available. A tool room unit will probably be sold with everything that was purchased with the lathe, but a production machine may be a lot less equipped.
Peter.
Titanium
- Joined
- Mar 28, 2007
- Location
- England UK
Amen to that. The speed chuck and 39 2J collets that came with mine have a used value of twice what I paid for the lathe.
Probably goes without saying but patience is a virtue in acquiring old iron. Prices may have gone up in recent years but even with that you should be able to get a decent example well tooled for a fraction of the 15-20K mentioned. I would not own one if that was the case.
Adding tooling can be reasonably priced if you haunt craigslist and ebay and are patient - need it now and you will wind up paying much more. My ultimate score was metric change gears for about $100 asking price (fortunately the owner sold them rather than converting them to another cheap lathe which they were considering) - actually paid more than the asking price for these.
Good luck
Paul
Adding tooling can be reasonably priced if you haunt craigslist and ebay and are patient - need it now and you will wind up paying much more. My ultimate score was metric change gears for about $100 asking price (fortunately the owner sold them rather than converting them to another cheap lathe which they were considering) - actually paid more than the asking price for these.
Good luck
Paul
BillDe
Cast Iron
- Joined
- Jun 12, 2004
- Location
- Boise, Idaho,USA
Yep...patience is a virtue.
rustytool
Stainless
- Joined
- Oct 27, 2010
- Location
- Moscow,Idaho,USA
Here's one you might be able to get for a good price.1 EE Lathe - tools - by owner - sale
toolnut
Stainless
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2005
- Location
- Kingsport, TN
Things worth considering when looking for a 10EE:
The Modular and the WIAD (works in a drawer) models can be reconnected to operate from 240 volt single phase. The Modular models are generally prefered.
The MG (motor generator) models can not be easily converted to operate from single phase.
Condition is everything when shopping for a used precision lathe.
Bad spindle bearings are a deal breaker, as new ones will be very costly.
If the lathe has been converted to ac motor and VFD and the back gear box was left out, i would keep looking or at least consult with this group. I come across these hack conversions a couple times each year. Monarch did produce a few of these VFD drives using 7.5 or 10 hp motors in an attempt to compensate for theloss of torque caused by the lack of a back gear.
Bruce
The Modular and the WIAD (works in a drawer) models can be reconnected to operate from 240 volt single phase. The Modular models are generally prefered.
The MG (motor generator) models can not be easily converted to operate from single phase.
Condition is everything when shopping for a used precision lathe.
Bad spindle bearings are a deal breaker, as new ones will be very costly.
If the lathe has been converted to ac motor and VFD and the back gear box was left out, i would keep looking or at least consult with this group. I come across these hack conversions a couple times each year. Monarch did produce a few of these VFD drives using 7.5 or 10 hp motors in an attempt to compensate for theloss of torque caused by the lack of a back gear.
Bruce
Monarchist
Diamond
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2012
- Location
- Sol, Terra
OTOH, because the "incoming" is running a DC generator (two, actually), they are more tolerant of RPC imperfections than machine-tools where the RPC output must run - and START - a 3-Phase spindle drive motor "directly".
So the "real" downside is that the MG pays a price for its smooth [er|est] "rotating power" DC conversion in heat, noise, and associated wall-to-spindle efficiency (about 55%?) vs the 95%+ of a VFD or DC Drive.
+1 "PBS Luck" to get in at under $1,000 USD. Can run double, even triple that figure.
A 10 HP 3-Phase motor, no reduction gears, is not hard or even very costly. Can work well-enough if/as/when one has "native" grade 3-P to feed its VFD.
The cost comes from need of a VFD that can drive it well off of single-phase input and not dim all the lights in the shop when asked to fast brake or rapid reverse the spindle. Until rather recently, that meant a 480 VAC-in VFD. If a shop could power that, it probably HAD 3-P power.
And was no longer in the market for NEW 10EE. Or any other "all manual" lathe.
Monarch Machine Tool had - AFAIK - ceased making lathes at all before fading off into the Cortland, NY sunset. It was left to Monarch Lathe LP to resurrect and preserve the 10EE.
