WTB: Gearbox for a 1943 Round Dial 10ee
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  1. #1
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    Default WTB: Gearbox for a 1943 Round Dial 10ee

    Hi folks,

    My dream lathe sits in my garage waiting to be cleaned up, painted and used. My 1943 U.S. Navy Round Dial machine is in good condition but has a frankenmotor setup in place of the original drive. I will be removing all of that and replacing with a 3 ph motor and VFD. I would like to add an original gearbox back into the power stream, but can't seem to locate one.

    Anyone have a gearbox for sale?

    Thanks,

    Guy

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    You might try Monarch Lathes, I've heard they have a supply of used 10EE parts at reasonable prices. They may have gearboxes left over from when they did some VFD retro-fits using a 10 h.p. motor and no gear reduction box.
    David

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    David, Great idea! That option never occurred to me. I'll call them on Monday. Thanks so much!

    Guy

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    I received a call back from Monarch today. Though I did buy a set of felts and a manual, they don't have any suitable gearboxes for sale. Thanks for that great idea though David!

    Still on the hunt...

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    I received a call back from Monarch today. Though I did buy a set of felts and a manual, they don't have any suitable gearboxes for sale. Thanks for that great idea though David!

    Still on the hunt...
    Scarce they are, and getting to be more so. But you are doing a conversion to 3-P motor and VFD, are you not?

    Those of us retaining any of the 10EE's DC motors stick with that gearbox because it is a bolt-up fit as well as a proven match to the need, more compact, long-axis, than most other options, and adds no vibration when not asked to perform at the reduction ratio.

    A 3-Phase motor going into space that no longer has even the need of the DC panel would not necessarily have to use 'only' that gearbox.

    In an MG base casting, and perhaps others, the motor would not even necessarily have to live in the same compartment. It could be relocated TS-ward, Lovejoy and (supported) driveshaft go HS-ward to a reduction system - belted and clutched, even, rather than geared.

    I'm not looking to add to the count of "Franken10EE's" at large, but the supply of gearboxes resembles awaiting promotion on the US Supreme court.

    One has to wait for a more seniour officeholder to retire. Or even die.

    10EE part-outs that release a still-usable gearbox back into the pool are not a great deal more frequent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    I received a call back from Monarch today. Though I did buy a set of felts and a manual, they don't have any suitable gearboxes for sale. Thanks for that great idea though David!

    Still on the hunt...
    Well rats, I'd hoped that I had come up with a brilliant solution. Thank you though for the report back.

    David

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    Check with Lost Creek Machine, they were parting out a 10EE.

    Hal

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    Quote Originally Posted by 220swift View Post
    Check with Lost Creek Machine, they were parting out a 10EE.

    Hal

    Thanks Hal! I'll give them a call in the morning.

    Guy

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    I called Lost Creek today. They didn't have any 10ee parts. Thanks for the idea nonetheless Hal!

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    What would a gearbox be worth? I did know of a man that had a round dial, without a motor, a few months ago in Houston.. In fact I think he had two.. What would you be willing to spend? If it's enough I might be willing to pick it up, if it's still there, and send you the gearbox..

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    What would a gearbox be worth? I did know of a man that had a round dial, without a motor, a few months ago in Houston.. In fact I think he had two.. What would you be willing to spend? If it's enough I might be willing to pick it up, if it's still there, and send you the gearbox..
    Unless... already separated, salvaged, and sold-on - as for an earlier VFD conversion - a 10EE gearbox will be wherever the motor is.

    They are hardly ever changed out because the motor itself has failed beyond easy repair (brushes).

    Rather because the system that feeds and manages the motor is deemed 'too difficult' (it need not be..) and an intention to convert to VFD is chased.

    Not all see completion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by swatkins View Post
    What would a gearbox be worth? I did know of a man that had a round dial, without a motor, a few months ago in Houston.. In fact I think he had two.. What would you be willing to spend? If it's enough I might be willing to pick it up, if it's still there, and send you the gearbox..

    If it's an original to the round dial 10ee, and in good condition, I would be willing to pay several hundred dollars.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    If it's an original to the round dial 10ee, and in good condition, I would be willing to pay several hundred dollars.
    If you are VFD'ing, your one need not be limited to Round Dial.

    Any gearbox will need fab of mount-up to AC motor.

    All the older one gains you is keyway'ed input shaft rather than splined input shaft, and that can - and has - been dealt with by several PM members already.

    Further - as you have to fab mounts REGARDLESS - you are not even limited to OEM Monarch gearbox - nor even GEARS - at all.

    An AC motor WILL need some help with reduction ratios 'of some kind'. They are at their best, base RPM and ABOVE, go short on torque, smoothness, and thermal-budget when the attempt is made to run them really slow, even if the VFD is willing to try.

    A DC motor is the opposite. At its best base RPM and BELOW, struggles to regulate RPM -> SFM -> cubic removal rate decently when in 'Field Weakened' mode at anything but light loads.

    That said, the issue is less about how to get 'enough' ratio reduction, and more about how to BYPASS any noisy Reeves-stye drive, or the 'cogging' effect of gears or PIV-style drive, so as to not 'watermark' fine work from their vibration input.

    Monarch's gearbox does that "bypass" trick rather well, and in a small space. "Obviously". It was, after all, purpose-built for the application.

    DIY or adaptation reduction ratio equivalents are not hard. They just need about 2 or 3 times as much space when built-up from diverse stock components. Parallel-shaft IS hard, "inline" shaft, much harder yet.

    Even so, at the end of the day, it is that 'bypass' or 'direct drive' feature that is hardest of all to find a practical alternative to.

    Not an academic exercise. I spent a good deal of time looking at Dodge and other reduction gears, Polyvee/Microvee double-reduction belt sets, Baruffaldi and other clutches.

    Two-stage belts, twin electrically-operated clutches had the most promise, as the ratio could also be selected on-the-fly, and could be expected to NOT 'watermark' the work, nor be overly inefficient, fussy of adjustment, nor noisy.

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    saw this on craigslist. says he has a parts lathe. worth a try.
    Monarch 1 EE tool room lathe

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    Thanks Bill. All good points. I WILL eventually find a gear box, even if I have to buy a whole lathe that needs to be parted out. I don't have the ability to engineer or evaluate the feasibility of a gear box replacement, so for me it will either be no gear box or a real Monarch GB.

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    Thank you for the lead! I emailed him and will follow up with a phone call in the morning.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    Thanks Bill. All good points. I WILL eventually find a gear box, even if I have to buy a whole lathe that needs to be parted out. I don't have the ability to engineer or evaluate the feasibility of a gear box replacement, so for me it will either be no gear box or a real Monarch GB.
    Hear yah.

    One of my two 10EE needs to leave the building this year, but intact and running, even if the bed wear has been left to a new owner to correct. New toy coming soon, badly need the space.

    Gearboxen are not hard to ship. But an entire 10EE on the East coast is not much help to a person in California, given the cost and risk of shipping at their mass and with a top-heavy nature.

    "Patience, gearbox hope-er"


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    The seller emailed me last night. He sold the parts lathe. He's trying to contact the seller for me now. Fingers crossed.

    Guy


    Quote Originally Posted by everettengr View Post
    saw this on craigslist. says he has a parts lathe. worth a try.
    Monarch 1 EE tool room lathe

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    ...and I don't think that I could cannibalize a running and working 10ee for parts to fix mine. Just doesn't seem right to me.
    Guy



    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Hear yah.

    One of my two 10EE needs to leave the building this year, but intact and running, even if the bed wear has been left to a new owner to correct. New toy coming soon, badly need the space.

    Gearboxen are not hard to ship. But an entire 10EE on the East coast is not much help to a person in California, given the cost and risk of shipping at their mass and with a top-heavy nature.

    "Patience, gearbox hope-er"


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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    ...and I don't think that I could cannibalize a running and working 10ee for parts to fix mine. Just doesn't seem right to me.
    Guy
    Fortunately, #1 10EE here doesn't need anything off #2 10EE, nor all that much from the parts stashed off #3 10EE, maynah's part-out.

    So I don't have to make a 'moral choice' on that.

    Just figure out how to afford a larger house...



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