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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Fortunately, #1 10EE here doesn't need anything off #2 10EE, nor all that much from the parts stashed off #3 10EE, maynah's part-out.

    So I don't have to make a 'moral choice' on that.

    Just figure out how to afford a larger house...

    Nah, ship the one with the worn bed to me, I know 3 people with slideway grinders.....

    Freight to Australia probably about the same as across the USA anyway.

    Semi-serious, a friend of mine and I have contemplated buying 2 10EE's (1 each) and shipping them home. Where we live in Tasmania, we're used to being bent over on freight costs anyway so a little more pain would hardly be noticeable.

    PDW

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    Nah, ship the one with the worn bed to me, I know 3 people with slideway grinders.....
    Guess if I could ship whole satellite Earth stations - C band yet, back in the day - to places like Nigeria and East Wombat AKA Woomera, Australia, I could actually DOO that. Good mate in HKG is a Tasman, could probably translate the local dialect..



    Freight to Australia probably about the same as across the USA anyway.
    if it is anything like our domestic air-fares, Oz could be cheaper.

    Port of Baltimore is close enough. Wrong US Coast for the better rates to Oceania, I'd guess.
    Semi-serious, a friend of mine and I have contemplated buying 2 10EE's (1 each) and shipping them home. Where we live in Tasmania, we're used to being bent over on freight costs anyway so a little more pain would hardly be noticeable.
    The Monarch community has seen a resurgence of rebuild efforts and sharing, has accumulated a great depth and breadth of information.

    I daresay there are nought but poverty or sloth as excuses left as barriers to powering - not technical ones.

    We've now seen the 'impossible' Sundstrand drives move into the doable. MG always was. Both of the hollow-state era are being restored more easily now. Solid-State DC Drives "re confirmed" as viable options, and VFD as what some love, but I consider 'last resort', even a few servo-ed final-drives.

    Geared-head lathes, most especially with powered clutches and servos, are not as easy as 'anything one get some form of belt onto' 10EE motive power.

    All that said?

    For the cost of containerized sea-freight - and Phil (Machtool) would be a good adviser - it would make sense to go for:

    A) The Monarch's in the best condition overall, even if bed-regrind IS still on the menu.

    B) Also of the most utility, overall. I'd rate that as Series 60/61/610 or similar, even larger, over 10EE because the spindle-bearing and other accuracy is not significantly different, and the 10EE has only a 20" c-to-c span.

    That extra 8" - 10" is half the reason I bought the HBX-360-BC.

    It being naturally bi-sexual, ("The French are a most peculiar race...") as to Whitworth and Metrifuckated the other half.

    Of course... NO manual lathe of less than 40" to 50" and larger swing actually makes economic sense, going forward. If it is not CNC, then it is a collector's item.

    On which score, better to import US motorcars, alter the axles so you can run them upside down. Not a gravity thing, I know better.

    Upside-down just matches the business of you lot driving on the Japanese side of the motorway with less work than moving all the controls and getting sucked into the complexity behind the fascia.

    My '72 BMW "Bavaria" had all the holes, mounting pads, and brackets to put the pedals and steering column on EITHER side. It was expected to have to cover Americas/LATAM, Continental Europe, Taiwan, China market ELSE UK/Japan/Oz/HKG/Mal-Asia, etc.

    US makers can't be bothered to provide for that.

  4. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Guess if I could ship whole satellite Earth stations - C band yet, back in the day - to places like Nigeria and East Wombat AKA Woomera, Australia, I could actually DOO that. Good mate in HKG is a Tasman, could probably translate the local dialect..



    if it is anything like our domestic air-fares, Oz could be cheaper.

    Port of Baltimore is close enough. Wrong US Coast for the better rates to Oceania, I'd guess.
    The Monarch community has seen a resurgence of rebuild efforts and sharing, has accumulated a great depth and breadth of information.

    I daresay there are nought but poverty or sloth as excuses left as barriers to powering - not technical ones.

    We've now seen the 'impossible' Sundstrand drives move into the doable. MG always was. Both of the hollow-state era are being restored more easily now. Solid-State DC Drives "re confirmed" as viable options, and VFD as what some love, but I consider 'last resort', even a few servo-ed final-drives.

    Geared-head lathes, most especially with powered clutches and servos, are not as easy as 'anything one get some form of belt onto' 10EE motive power.

    All that said?

    For the cost of containerized sea-freight - and Phil (Machtool) would be a good adviser - it would make sense to go for:

    A) The Monarch's in the best condition overall, even if bed-regrind IS still on the menu.

    B) Also of the most utility, overall. I'd rate that as Series 60/61/610 or similar, even larger, over 10EE because the spindle-bearing and other accuracy is not significantly different, and the 10EE has only a 20" c-to-c span.

    That extra 8" - 10" is half the reason I bought the HBX-360-BC.

    It being naturally bi-sexual, ("The French are a most peculiar race...") as to Whitworth and Metrifuckated the other half.

    Of course... NO manual lathe of less than 40" to 50" and larger swing actually makes economic sense, going forward. If it is not CNC, then it is a collector's item.

    On which score, better to import US motorcars, alter the axles so you can run them upside down. Not a gravity thing, I know better.

    Upside-down just matches the business of you lot driving on the Japanese side of the motorway with less work than moving all the controls and getting sucked into the complexity behind the fascia.

    My '72 BMW "Bavaria" had all the holes, mounting pads, and brackets to put the pedals and steering column on EITHER side. It was expected to have to cover Americas/LATAM, Continental Europe, Taiwan, China market ELSE UK/Japan/Oz/HKG/Mal-Asia, etc.

    US makers can't be bothered to provide for that.
    Just saw a Keith Rucker video on a 28" swing 1960's Monarch. It had a D1-6 spindle mount. What's the odds on the spindle bore still being pathetically small for the lathe swing? I am absolutely uninterested in any machine the size of a 61 series Monarch that doesn't have at least a 75mm spindle bore. Already have a CY. Can buy quite a few Japanese made lathes with big spindle bores locally. Pity none of them have taper attachments which, for my big lathe, is a must-have (at least until I upgrade to CNC).

    No, a 10EE would be a nice upgrade from my Colchester Chipmaster but the Chippie is a good lathe. Lot less complex in its drive system that's for sure.

    Probably in this century if I was going to spend real money I'd buy a Eurotrash Schaublin or similar.

    PDW

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    There is a chance I will be picking up two monarchs in the next month or so, one for parts. I believe the spare parts machine is mostly complete (compound disassembled) with a taper attachment and a round dial machine. I will keep you updated

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    That's great news! Thank you! Actually, there are several parts I would be interested in buying off of that round dial machine. Feel free to call me at 916, five four eight, five 984.
    Guy



    Quote Originally Posted by Abeship View Post
    There is a chance I will be picking up two monarchs in the next month or so, one for parts. I believe the spare parts machine is mostly complete (compound disassembled) with a taper attachment and a round dial machine. I will keep you updated

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    Quote Originally Posted by PDW View Post
    No, a 10EE would be a nice upgrade from my Colchester Chipmaster but the Chippie is a good lathe. Lot less complex in its drive system that's for sure.
    Let me address that 'complexity' issue, because it is no longer the barrier folks once thought it was.

    Whether a 10EE is 'right' for a given purpose should instead focus on condition of ways, etc, spindle bearings, and on whether the mere 20" c-to-c work envelope is adequate.

    Making sufficiently smooth and powerful turns at the spindle is easier than even most 'conehead' lathes. No multiple ratios required - just a pair of pulleys, pair of inherently-matched "A" section Vee belts, some form of tensioner/idler, OEM or not, and a flat belt commonly sub-ed for with an inexpensive automotive-market PolyVee/MicroVee 'serpentine'. About $12, IIRC.

    "Mechanically", it can't be made much simpler.

    No headstock gearing, no true 'back' gears at the high-torque output end of the drivetrain, just an OEM gearbox at the lower-torque INPUT of the drivetrain, and so seldom used it could even be classed as 'optional'.

    As to what powers that simple mechanical array?

    No longer as difficult as it once was.

    - OEM Hydraulic "Sundstrand" drives have now been proven repairable after all, even when castings were badly damaged. No surprise. Hydraulics in general are several orders of magnitude more pervasive now than they were just prior to 1939 when the first of the 10EE tribe were being tested.

    - Both iterations of MG, 'inline' exciter and 'piggyback' exciter are about the least-cost to repair of all, and with the best odds of a favorable outcome, 'soonest'.

    - Both iterations of 'hollow state' - the WiaD and the Modular, are also more easily restored than ever before. C16J are not easy to find cheaply, but can be had. Nothing else is especially difficult.

    - Rheostats, contactors, and 'tuned' relays can be rebuilt. Substitutes exist for all.

    - Modern DC Drives, 3-Phase-in can be a near-as-dammit 'drop in' replacement for the Monarch Sidney DC Drive or any other early 3-Phase-only DC Drive.

    - Modern DC Drives, single-phase in (Parker-SSD) have proven to need no more than what their manuals called for: A full-isolation transformer to get 230/240 VAC line-voltage up to ~ 290-350 VAC, plus a stout 'ripple filter' so the motor does not grumble at having to integrate 120 Hz pulsed DC. That drive solution is not the least-costly in the room, but has been proven to run the 5 HP DC motors as well as it runs the 3 HP ones.

    "Universal soldier" those SSD drives. So long as ANY of Monarch's DC motors is still present and good or readily repairable, even the very modest amount of wiring is the same. Spare DC motors are 'out there' as well.

    - One-tier-down, we have underpowered 10EE with KB-Penta 180 VDC drives and not-quite-fit-for-the-purpose Beel/BICL D510(X) drives. Sub-optimal, but they can make chips, and well enough to do quite lot of 'niche' turning that did not need full power to begin with.

    - More than one-tier down are 10EE with 'dumb' rectifiers, Variacs & such, and even single-phase motors with belted ratios fitted. Rather sorry comparison to OEM power-wise, but the rest of the lathe is just as accurate, so work is found they can handle, too.

    - VFD + 3-P AC motor drives are now common, several choices of motor or VFD, most with OEM gearboxes, but not all.

    - Servo drives have been done - AFAICS - no fewer than five times.

    "To date", we have not seen integral IC engines, steam turbines, nor nuclear reactors.

    Patience, please. We are not yet done with finding ways to turn a pair of vee belts.

    "Complex"?

    Only because we have sooo very many more options to have to CHOOSE FROM when compared to a geared-head lathe!


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    Quote Originally Posted by Abeship View Post
    There is a chance I will be picking up two monarchs in the next month or so, one for parts. I believe the spare parts machine is mostly complete (compound disassembled) with a taper attachment and a round dial machine. I will keep you updated
    Not trying to high jack this post. I've got a 1943 10ee and I'm looking for the big side cover on the belt side of the machine. If your parts machine has it and you want to get rid of it please give me a call at 281-229-1960. Thanks, Dave.

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    Hey SWA Guy - any luck finding a GB? If not, I have one - my '41 came with a number of spare parts and that was one of them! It's a later-model spline shaft jobby, but as Monarchist said, it could easily be adapted to your '43 during the 3P motor fit-up. If you're still looking for one, feel free to give me a shout (four zero eight - six nine three - five five one one). Looks like you are in Elk Grove? I'm fairly close by in Santa Cruz.

    img_0236.jpg

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    Adam,

    My Sister lives in Boulder Creek! I'll give you a call today (Wed).

    Thanks,
    Guy


    Quote Originally Posted by adamstagnaro View Post
    Hey SWA Guy - any luck finding a GB? If not, I have one - my '41 came with a number of spare parts and that was one of them! It's a later-model spline shaft jobby, but as Monarchist said, it could easily be adapted to your '43 during the 3P motor fit-up. If you're still looking for one, feel free to give me a shout (four zero eight - six nine three - five five one one). Looks like you are in Elk Grove? I'm fairly close by in Santa Cruz.

    img_0236.jpg

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    I am so grateful to Stag53! He had a spare late-model gearbox in his stash. We made the deal and the gearbox is now in my shop. It looks to be in very good condition.

    img_6602.jpgimg_6603.jpgimg_6604.jpgimg_6605.jpgimg_6606.jpg

    (For some reason, the images appear 90 deg from what I see on my computer)

    I think that this is complete and will review the late model parts diagram to confirm. I haven't yet dismantled this to check bearings and such, but the gears that I can see appear to be in great condition. I do notice that the oil sight glass on the Operator's side is missing (Adam lowered the price when he also noticed it). Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell?

    Now to engineer a mounting scheme to locate the 3ph motor and a lovejoy coupling...

    Thank you all for your advice and suggestions! Hang on - there will be more questions coming.

    Guy

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    Abeship, Any progress on the round dial parts machine?

    Guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    I do notice that the oil sight glass on the Operator's side is missing (Adam lowered the price when he also noticed it). Does anyone have a spare that they would be willing to sell?
    That would HAVE to be more scarce even than the complete gearboxes are.

    No fear. Not a show-stopper.

    Make an adapter to any of several dozen commonly available stock sight glasses.

    Straight, not right-angle if need be. Small mirrors and tiny LED flashlights are cheap and common.

    With decent gaskets and seals, you will soon KNOW if you have leakage or seepage, how often and when to check and top-up. Should be good to go for scores of years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    That would HAVE to be more scarce even than the complete gearboxes are.

    No fear. Not a show-stopper.

    Make an adapter to any of several dozen commonly available stock sight glasses.

    Straight, not right-angle if need be...

    Monarchist,
    Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. I have a brand new CNC mill in the shop and plan to make an adapter out of aluminum. I presume that there really isn't any pressure in the enclosed gearbox and aluminum should be more than adequate. Agree?

    Guy

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWA Guy View Post
    Monarchist,
    Thank you, I was thinking the same thing. I have a brand new CNC mill in the shop and plan to make an adapter out of aluminum. I presume that there really isn't any pressure in the enclosed gearbox and aluminum should be more than adequate. Agree?

    Guy
    No significant "pressure", no.

    Shiney-wood should be OK, yeah. Even industrial plastics would "work" for all that sight-glass has to do.

    Even so, a stock washer, large bolt size, and/or with "fender" washer ID/OD ratio, could probably be drilled to fit the flange seat. Then a stock sight-glass adapted- "O" ring or two and a nut or such.

    I don't see much need to do CNC milling in there. Functional item, not "cosmetic", after all.

    Truth told, I'd rather adapt a motorcar engine or transmission 'dipstick' so as to not have to wrassle with those heavy CI arse-covers as often just to lay an eyeball onto the damned thing.

    A "webcam" would be overkill... but wot the hey.. it IS a "10EE" after all..


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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    No significant "pressure", no...

    I don't see much need to do CNC milling in there. Functional item, not "cosmetic", after all...

    With this new CNC mill, I am learning CAD and CAM and welcome new projects to test my skills. I guess you could say that it's similar to a "when all you have is a hammer..." sort of thing.

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