Thread: Any words of wisdom from Graziano SAG 14 owners?

Lofty,
Thank you so much for the link to that file! Eventually I will want an original copy or make my own high quality version, but this is outstanding. TT, If I had the room and the money to build that monster, I would. If you think it would fit in a USPS flat rate box, I'll ask to borrow it. I will look around for possible alternatives but I am stuck on the loading/unloading problem at this point.

Mark

Originally Posted by Crank

Lofty,
Thank you so much for the link to that file! Eventually I will want an original copy or make my own high quality version, but this is outstanding. TT, If I had the room and the money to build that monster, I would. If you think it would fit in a USPS flat rate box, I'll ask to borrow it. I will look around for possible alternatives but I am stuck on the loading/unloading problem at this point.

Mark

I have not done this myself, but some of the guys have called a wrecker outfit that have the big trucks with a boom (for 18 wheelers, I think) and had them load/unload heavy stuff like this... You will still have to figure out how to get it inside, but they can probably get it right outside the door. Might be better to rent a forklift for an hour or so, as it could go inside (unless you do not have a driveway to the door).

I installed a 3/4 inch concrete anchor bolt towards the rear of my shop so I could pull things up my slightly sloping driveway and into the building with a chain hoist.

Another alternative is this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Rol-A-Lift-M...item27bfe6c739

They are called Rol-A-Lift's, and come in pairs with straps - you lift one end at a time and set it on the short forks, then do the same at the other end and strap them together so they can't back off. There is a jack on each one to lift that end and then two guys can move a pretty heavy load with them. I think they can be rented, but I have never tried - a friend of mine landed a pair on Craigs list.

TT,
Dammit, now you went and got the evil squirrels working upstairs. I have been discussing this with a friend of mine to see if he sees any flaws.
1) rent 6'x12' trailer
2) throw borrowed 4000lb engine hoist in bed of truck
3) have at least a dozen 2'-3' sections of 2"x8" wood
4) have sections of black pipe or machinery skates if available
5) move lathe to back of trailer on pipe or skates
6) using engine hoist one end at a time, slowly raise and block each end until almost at height of trailer bed
7) lift tailstock end with engine hoist until trailer can be backed up under end and lower onto pipes or skate
8) secure hoist to headstock end and lift until blocks can be removed and roll lathe into bed of trailer
9) lower headstock end onto pipes or skate and slide all the way forward
10) remove skates and secure
11) upon arrival, reverse order into garage
12) drink beer purchased with money saved from move
I would prefer step 12 be sooner, but I have no desire to wind up on Fail blog or AFHV.

Mark

I would not trust 8 in wide lumber to be steady enough to support the lathe while "airborne" - at least one end should be cross stacked in a box configuration to make it stable in both directions. Thus the individual pieces do not need to 8 in wide - I would use 4x4's or 6x6's for the cross stack.

Also, I lift the load high enough to back the trailer under it rather than vice-versa. If putting a large load on the back end of the trailer, back it under, then block the back of the trailer so the hitch ball does not have to support a lot of force upward (most likely you will need a jack to remove these blocks when finished loading).

When finished loading, the load should be almost centered on the trailer axles, but slightly forward to put a load of about 200 lbs on the ball- my experience is trailers tend to pull with more stability when so loaded.

In any event, you do not want the load so far back in the trailer that it is trying to lift the tongue while driving down the road....

The floor of the U-haul trailers is galvanized steel, so the load can be slid into place relatively easy - but this means it must be tied down well so as to not allow the load to move under road stress such as sudden stops. I prefer the heavy nylon straps with tighteners rated at 3300 lbs for hauling cars, but some prefer chains.

TT,
Now that you point it out, I understand what you mean about boxing. I would do that with the headstock end due to the greatest weight and it would not hamper access with the engine hoist. I realize the need to center the load with a slight bias towards the tongue. I mentioned this idea at work and one of the guys mentioned that he thought that we had some skates. A quick check in another building proved that was a true statement. So now I have three machinery skates that are so heavily built, that the lathe won't prove to be the slightest problem for them. I am sitting here shaking my head realizing how easily this is coming together, after I was certain there wasn't a snowball's chance in heck that I would move a machine this size. The good part is that by saving the money that would have been spent on the move, I will be able to get the lathe that much sooner. I still need to sell my lathe and a benchtop milling machine to gain space, but the money should come together without too much trouble, since I have been finding sacrificial victims in the safe to put on GunBroker. By the way, what confused me about the Turcite, was seeing how thick you had it in some locations and I picture that it would have a degree of compressability that would compromise accuracy. I never would have expected there was a product suitable to build up areas after grinding, so now I have learned something. The work you are doing is a testament to patience and skill. I could not see myself able to focus on something so demanding and requiring consistent accuracy on so many planes. Thanks again for the input.

Mark

Mark,
This is the temporary gantry I built in my garage to unload my Bridgeport mill. I intended to use it for the Graziano as well but ended up hiring the movers to transport it from SoCal and they had their own equipment to unload it. The temporary gantry worked great for the Bridgeport and I used the lumber to build a storage shed for all that stuff in the garage that shouldn't be allowed too close to machinery (you know......lawn mowers, wheel barrows, shovels, rakes, etc :-).

Ted,
Seeing that picture, I still have panic attacks when I think about when we unloaded my Bridgeport. We had almost completely come free of the bed of the trailer and I told my friend to pull the trailer forward. I had the mill suspended by straps with the lift at maximum, as soon as it cleared the end of the trailer it did a lazy tip sideways and all I could picture was shattered iron. The mill stopped tipping at after going almost 60 degrees, I put my hand on it after I regained my composure and pushed it lightly with one hand almost all the way back upright. We got it on the ground and I excused myself for a case of the shakes and the need for a fresh pair of shorts. Once it was on the ground it was a simple and quick shuffle on rollers into the garage. The only casualty of the day, was as we brought it into the garage, an iron wok was hanging from the rafters and it came down and my buddy was whacked by a wok on his hand. I mentioned this move to that same friend but assured him that the area will be free of malicious cookware if we do another move. Right now my focus is on selling my equipment and getting the rest of the funds, so that I can get that beauty down here.

Mark

Well, a quick update. My Enco went on down the road to a new home on Sunday, so now I have a sizeable chunk of the remaining funds and an uncomfortably empty space on the floor. I had neglected to look at availability of VFD's for providing 3ph before I leapt into this. To run the 5HP motor on the Graziano, there are not a lot of choices and a rotary phase converter is looking like a more suitable candidate. I have never used or been around one, are they moderately quiet? I see that the key feature is that the RPC will allow 100% efficency of the motor rating (obviously if sized correctly). I guess I will burn that bridge when I get to it. I am still somewhat hesitant about doing the move myself, but as time nears for purchasing it, I need to get my decision made.

Mark

Mark,
Sounds like you're getting pretty close to getting that Sag 14 home. As for the RPC, there is a lot of good information on this website about constructing one. I used ideas from several different control schemes to design and construct mine. I'm using a 10HP motor which is probably a little over-kill, but it works very well. (besides after some horse trading the 10HP motor was free). Attached are a couple of pictures of my unit.

I was an electronics technician in the Navy (no idea why) and seeing something like that still makes me twitch. I hate trons and prefer gears and linkages any day. I don't see myself making an RPC. So far all of the quotes have been so high for moving, that the thought of doing it myself seems like the best bet. We'll see.

Mark

Time to update the progress. I have a truck lined up, 6'x12' trailer reserved, skates and 4000lb hoist in the garage. Scraped up the last of the money and ready to attempt the move on Saturday. An unexpected blessing was finding out that there is an individual in the industrial complex that has a forklift and is willing to load the lathe onto the trailer. That takes away half of the jitters for this move. I have completely reconfigured my garage to allow an easy access location for the lathe, although my mill has become the elephant in the room. I am on the fence whether to take him up on the DRO system, it needs a new scale for the bed, but it is an Acu Rite unit. He wants $500.00 for it and I have no personal knowledge if it is an entry level, or higher end unit. I still need to get an RPC to power this beast, but thanks to the sale of another gun, I have a little wiggle room to go pick one up. I will look forward to getting some photos once this ordeal is over.

Mark

Good to hear you are making progress!

Originally Posted by Crank

An unexpected blessing was finding out that there is an individual in the industrial complex that has a forklift and is willing to load the lathe onto the trailer.

Please lash it to the mast. The bed will be oily and have no grip on the forks. Doesn't take much of a bump to get it sliding. Lots of lathes get dropped off forklifts and are never the same again. Best of luck.

Lofty,
Excellent point and your warning will be heeded. I am leaning towards using an overhead lift approach to avoid tipping.
Thanks

Mark

Success!
The Graziano is safely in the garage. Loading was fairly uneventful, thanks to the forklift, no problems for the ride back and we took our sweet time and had the lathe out of the trailer and on the ground in far less than two hours. I will let the pictures do the talking.

Congratulations and well done. The lathe looks real tidy.

beautiful machine. Is that you giving orders with coffee cup in hand

Thanks, I won't be able to get the RPC until Tuesday and am having my power panel upgraded on Thursday, so I won't be operational until next weekend. Once the panel is done, I will be able to place the lathe in its permanent location and level it. I think the lathe was overfilled with oil in the lower area, because I have quite a puddle coming out from under the headstock area. Otherwise it has a bladder problem. I will open the side panel and see if I can determine the source. I am going on the basis that it was tipped and bounced enough during the move, for the oil to slosh out. My friend and I were able to offload without any panicky moments and didn't strain ourselves at all. I feel absolutely exhausted now that it is finally here and I can decompress. Thanks again to everyone for the info and encouragement.

Mark

Klamath,
No, I am the fat furry guy in the first photo. The guy with the coffee is the gent that sold the lathe and my friend Bob is the tall one. Total cost for the move, including rental, gas, lunch and tipping the guy with the forklift was $170.00 . What a day, my wife asked if I planned on sleeping in the garage, so it wouldn't get scared and lonely on its first night in its new home. I told her that was foolish , it's an adult lathe.

Mark

Great job, and the lathe looks great too - much better paint than mine came with!