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Thread: Graziano Sag 210 Lathe

  1. #1
    jcbinc is offline Plastic
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    I bought a used dead Sag 210 several years ago from Halliday machinery in Seattle. They were the Graziano dealers and they spent 4000 dollars and could not fix the controls. They were not completly honest as the machine was a nc and they threw the brain box away. I got the prints and rewired the machine back to a convential engine lathe in about 2 months.

    I ended up buying 4 new electric clutches and some new gears and shafts for the gear box from Italy. After all of this and I got the gear box going I ended up putting a CNC 15 HP spindle motor and drives in the machine.

    It is a wonderful lathe and I wonder if anyone could use the gear box and clutches. The clutches cost 2500 each from DMG but I found the OEM in Italy and they new manufactured them for me in about 4 months. I fixed the gear box for about 2500 dollars and it works fine. I use the machine for reaming deep holes so I put flux vector drives on both the main and the rapid traverse motor. I use the rapid traverse motor to ream small holes.

    If anyone else has one of these lathes I would be interested to hear from them. We have seven lathes here and the Graziano is a nicer machine than the English Harrisons and Colchesters we have. This Graziano must have been really expensive when it was new. It still is very accurate.

    JCBINC.

  2. #2
    CBlair is online now Diamond
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    Wow, sounds like quite a job, good luck with your "new" machine.

    Charles

  3. #3
    jcbinc is offline Plastic
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    If anyone is interested I could put up some pictures. I just made an adapter plate on it with a A2-8 nose on the face and flat back to mount on a 280mm forth axis for a machining center. I put the plate on the forth axis trued it up and put the chuck on the adapter. Work in a 12 inch 3 jaw chuck ran with .001 TIR. This old lathe still looks like it is speeding standing still.

    JCBINC.

  4. #4
    Peter S is offline Diamond
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    JCBINC,

    Yes please, photos would be interesting! I haven't seen or heard of this model, any idea when it was manufactured?
    Thanks!

  5. #5
    jcbinc is offline Plastic
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    The sag 210 series was made until the the 1980's and I think it was the last of the manual graziano lathes. I have a tracer on mine and I put back into the orginal configuration except that I put a ac spindle drive with flux vector control for the spindle and a flux vector on the rapid traverse motors. I use the ac drive for the rapid traverse motor to ream with. I am not sure how to post a picture. Got any ideas how I do it? The lathe is really cool and I just love to run it. The way the crose feed screw is designed there is no back last at all and I put on newall digital readouts for the bed and cross feed. This lathe looks like are race car or something from the back side.

    jcbinc.

  6. #6
    Peter S is offline Diamond
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    jcbinc,

    Here is a thread on posting images:

    http://www.practicalmachinist.com/ub...topic/5/7.html

    Basically you need to download your photos onto a host like Photobucket, that makes them accessible. It is free and not too difficult (though it took me a while to figure it out [img]redface.gif[/img] )

    If all else fails, you can e-mail me an image and I can post it for you.

    Good luck! [img]smile.gif[/img]

    BTW, I have a Maho Graziano brochure dated 1989, they were still offering 2 manual lathes, but the models were "GR 100 W" (seems to be an updated Sag 12), and "GR 200 W" (210mm centre height, maybe related to your lathe)

  7. #7
    Peter S is offline Diamond
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    jcbinc sent me some photos. here are a few. Looks like a nice lathe! The images are a bit small though. I have never seen a Graziano looking like that from behind, nice.






  8. #8
    jcbinc is offline Plastic
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    I could not figure out how to make the photo part of the site work so I used the photo program and scanned them and then sent the photos directly to Peter. The file reduced from 2 meg to 89 kilobite with photo smart.

    I bought a smw autoblok self centering steady rest so I can use the lathe for shaft turning with face drivers.

    The ac spindle motor will take a 3/8 depth of cut andnot even make any noise. the AC amps do not go up either. They sure built a good lathe when they made this one.

    John

  9. #9
    Tumbleweed Tim is offline Stainless
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    Here is the one I found in my shop. [img]smile.gif[/img]
    Chip pan removed for easy clean up.
    About a 77 model. I think it went for 45K new. Still tight and fun to run.



  10. #10
    Peter S is offline Diamond
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    Tim,

    I seem to recall you have a Sag 12? I wonder, is your 210 the same type of gearbox, ie four speed electric change on the apron? What are those other controls (switches) on the apron?
    TIA.

  11. #11
    Tumbleweed Tim is offline Stainless
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    Peter,
    No 12, just the 210. Gearbox would be the 4 speed. The controls are spindle speeds and range and an e-stop. Intresting how they ran the wires. For the life of me I can't find them. E-stop on the cross slide as well. Glad everthing works, if it ever doesn't I might convert it like JCBINC. On second thought I should probably buy that gearbox, but lately I am into CNC and think it is just as much fun.

  12. #12
    bernerscientific is offline Aluminum
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    I purchased my SAG 210 about 3 years ago on ebay from a shop in the LA area. The machine is in excellent condition except for a few problems that I am still working on. But it did not come with a steady rest or follow rest. Does anyone have either one or both they would consider selling or trading.

    There are some subtle ergonomic design features this machine has that are easy to miss at an initial glance. For one, it has a fancy coolant return spout that is attached to the oval side door and fits over the rear of the spindle. I’ve never seen this sort of device on any other manual lathe (correct me if I’m wrong). Two, the coolant splash guard has a cut-out for the hand dials, which is nice, but it also has a horizontal coolant drain so coolant doesn’t drip on your hands. Three, as jbcinc said, it has an anti-backlash device on the cross-feed screw which makes holding tight tolerances a bit easier. Four, the whole machine is enclosed in its 70’s “Sleeper” like (Woody Allen’s only sci-fi movie) oval shell to keep coolant and chips under control plus house adequate internal lighting. This was one of the early engine lathes to anticipate what is common on all cncs and hybrids today. Enclosed coolant guards.

    I will send some more detail pics later.

  13. #13
    Tumbleweed Tim is offline Stainless
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    Nice looking Grazi Berner. I have all my doors and stuff, but no steady or follower. I have an air actuated 5c set up and an air feed bar tube. It had a Duplimatic thread tracer but to many pieces missing to make getting it going worthwhile. My local machine guy that I got mine from always said they look like a subway car. And your right, the sheet metal is totally functional and a great design. Heck of a machine. People wouldn't believe the tolerances the thing will cut to and the surface finish you can get so I won't even mention it. Probably get some 10EE guy's panties knotted up.

  14. #14
    r2rcr is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by jcbinc View Post
    I bought a used dead Sag 210 several years ago from Halliday machinery in Seattle. They were the Graziano dealers and they spent 4000 dollars and could not fix the controls. They were not completly honest as the machine was a nc and they threw the brain box away. I got the prints and rewired the machine back to a convential engine lathe in about 2 months.

    I ended up buying 4 new electric clutches and some new gears and shafts for the gear box from Italy. After all of this and I got the gear box going I ended up putting a CNC 15 HP spindle motor and drives in the machine.

    It is a wonderful lathe and I wonder if anyone could use the gear box and clutches. The clutches cost 2500 each from DMG but I found the OEM in Italy and they new manufactured them for me in about 4 months. I fixed the gear box for about 2500 dollars and it works fine. I use the machine for reaming deep holes so I put flux vector drives on both the main and the rapid traverse motor. I use the rapid traverse motor to ream small holes.

    If anyone else has one of these lathes I would be interested to hear from them. We have seven lathes here and the Graziano is a nicer machine than the English Harrisons and Colchesters we have. This Graziano must have been really expensive when it was new. It still is very accurate.

    JCBINC.
    Jcbinc
    I thought I'd try again for information anyone may have experianced during your revisions to your Graziano SAG 210. We are strikeing out on the information to convert from Auto to manual use. Ours is currently stuck in Auto. If any one out there can help or has some information Please contact me. I have enjoyed this lathe for years but right now it is a very acurate boat anchor.

  15. #15
    r2rcr is offline Plastic
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    Quote Originally Posted by bernerscientific View Post


    I purchased my SAG 210 about 3 years ago on ebay from a shop in the LA area. The machine is in excellent condition except for a few problems that I am still working on. But it did not come with a steady rest or follow rest. Does anyone have either one or both they would consider selling or trading.

    There are some subtle ergonomic design features this machine has that are easy to miss at an initial glance. For one, it has a fancy coolant return spout that is attached to the oval side door and fits over the rear of the spindle. I’ve never seen this sort of device on any other manual lathe (correct me if I’m wrong). Two, the coolant splash guard has a cut-out for the hand dials, which is nice, but it also has a horizontal coolant drain so coolant doesn’t drip on your hands. Three, as jbcinc said, it has an anti-backlash device on the cross-feed screw which makes holding tight tolerances a bit easier. Four, the whole machine is enclosed in its 70’s “Sleeper” like (Woody Allen’s only sci-fi movie) oval shell to keep coolant and chips under control plus house adequate internal lighting. This was one of the early engine lathes to anticipate what is common on all cncs and hybrids today. Enclosed coolant guards.

    I will send some more detail pics later.
    B~
    I thought I'd try again for information anyone may have experianced during your revisions to your Graziano SAG 210. We are strikeing out on the information to convert from Auto to manual use. Ours is currently stuck in Auto. If any one out there can help or has some information Please contact me. I have enjoyed this lathe for years but right now it is a very acurate boat anchor.

  16. #16
    r2rcr is offline Plastic
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    TT.
    I thought I'd try again for information anyone may have experianced during your revisions to your Graziano SAG 210. We are strikeing out on the information to convert from Auto to manual use. Ours is currently stuck in Auto. If any one out there can help or has some information Please contact me. I have enjoyed this lathe for years but right now it is a very acurate boat anchor.

  17. #17
    Cirdec is offline Plastic
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    Hi does anyone have wiring diag. for the clutches on the 210 would be most helpfull thanks.

  18. #18
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    ducbertus is offline Cast Iron
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    Hi Cirdec,

    will look for you tomorrow. the shop where I spend time on the lathe and the mill has a SAG210. if the manuals are complete I'll copy the diags for you.

    Bertus

  19. #19
    ducbertus's Avatar
    ducbertus is offline Cast Iron
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    Hi,
    sorry, ran out of time today. next week Tuesday is the next attempt

    Bertus

  20. #20
    Cirdec is offline Plastic
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    Thanks, Whenever you get a chance it will be great, to get some information especially seen as the speed relays have been disconnected and the rest of the elec. cabinet looks like a crows nest.

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