Largest suitable chuck on a Schaublin 102?

corlm · Dec 22, 2017

Hello,

I've looked around some for information but haven't really found information about it. I'm a beginner when it comes to this.

I've recently bought a Schaublin 102 and looking to replace the chuck. Is it possible to have a chuck that is to large in regards to weight? I've found a 6-jaw that is 160 mm diameter and with the jaws fully extended it's 204 mm. That sounds like it's as big as it could get and still be functional, the weight however is 10,5 Kg. The chucks that I got with the lathe are all 100-125 mm. Would a 125 be more suitable?

Luke Rickert · Dec 22, 2017

I wouldn't want to run one that large. I think 125 is plenty of chuck on a 102 and if you look at the catalog they only came with a max 130 for a 3 jaw. A really light 4 jaw was 150. I feel bad about my scroll/independent 100mm 4 jaw for that matter.

The beauty of these machines is with collets anyway

I would put a 160mm chuck on my much larger 135 but not on a 102.
Luke

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Luke Rickert · Dec 22, 2017

I really like the maprox style of 6 jaw chuck, they are only for light work and are expensive as hell but they work really slick.
L

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corlm · Dec 22, 2017

I've mainly been looking at Bison-Bial chucks and the 125 mm version weighs 6,2 Kg. I'd be very interested in the weight of the chucks that Shaublin offered.

Luke Rickert · Dec 22, 2017

Which spindle do you have? The w20 chucks max around 5kg. I would be looking at used chucks, new ones are rather expensive if they are any good.
L

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Monarchist · Dec 22, 2017

corlm said:
I've mainly been looking at Bison-Bial chucks and the 125 mm version weighs 6,2 Kg. I'd be very interested in the weight of the chucks that Shaublin offered.

I just recently bought a NOS plain-back Bison/Bial nominal 6" 7-850-0600 that the cheap LCD scale here sez weighs 10 lbs, Avoir, (4.55 kg?) with its four face-mounting bolts and bottom half of the pasteboard box.

Short O/A length, and nicely finished, but my lathes (10EE, HBX-360-BC) have way too much torque & HP for its slender construction & thin jaws, so it will probably go onto my also-lightly-built Ellis Dividing Head.

One of those might be fine on the less assertive Schaublin if you have a genuine need to keep the rotating mass down.

I don't actually KNOW, but would have expected Schaublin's OEM chucks to have been Swiss, German, or Austrian, not Czech or Polish.

BTW - also have two larger NOS 7 1/4" Swedish-made chucks. "SCA". Nice work as well.

If NOS SCA's could be found at a dealer in Ohio, USA? There may still be some closer to where they were born?

Luke Rickert · Dec 23, 2017

Monarchist said:
I don't actually KNOW, but would have expected Schaublin's OEM chucks to have been Swiss, German, or Austrian, not Czech or Polish.

I think Schaublin mostly sold Bani (Swiss) and Pratt Burnerd (UK) along with those lovely little Maprox/Zweifel which are naturally Swiss.

The thing is no matter how expensive, no scroll chuck is all that accurate (as that is not the point of them) although the Maprox are very impressive within their limitations. I would suggest a used Roehm as they are good quality and not so expensive, Bison is nice stuff but the prices have climbed over the years so they are really no less expensive than Roehm etc. In the new market I would look at TOS, or even something less expensive and use collets, a 4 jaw or centers when accuracy is critical. If you have a w20 spindle I can probably sell you back plate for a good price as I have a few of them on the shelf.

Luke

Jersey John · Dec 23, 2017

Having used most versions of Schaublin 102's I've never used anything larger than 125mm and they were either Bison 3 and 6 jaws or PB(UK) 3 and 4 jaws.

I would think you'd be fine on the W25 / F27 spindle but would not like to comment on the W20.

Just my two pence / Euro's worth.

John :typing:

Monarchist · Dec 23, 2017

whidbey said:
Bison is nice stuff but the prices have climbed over the years so they are really no less expensive than Roehm etc. In the new market I would look at TOS,

Seconded on both counts.

If ever I could ID a legitimate use for a 3-J here (doubtful..) a brand-new ToS would be my go-to on both very good "absolute" quality and even better value-for-money.

Luke Rickert · Dec 23, 2017

Monarchist said:
Seconded on both counts.

If ever I could ID a legitimate use for a 3-J here (doubtful..) a brand-new ToS would be my go-to on both very good "absolute" quality and even better value-for-money.

Really the 102 is a collet lathe, collets are great with in their limitations and just super nice to use. In use them 85%+ of the time on my 102 and 50% if the time on the 135. I will probably pick up a TOS 3 jaw for the 135 so I can have a three jaw with internal and another with external jaws set up but as they are only for single set up parts so the accuracy doesn't matter.
L

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Monarchist · Dec 23, 2017

whidbey said:
Really the 102 is a collet lathe, collets are great with in their limitations and just super nice to use.

Lesse.... 5C, 2J, RubberFlex 9XX, Burnerd MultiSize, ER40, ER20, ER again for the mills, drillpress, Dividing head and bench, plus #9 B&S collets, NMTB-40 collets, Gorton collets on #9 B&S tail...

Preachin' to the choir, even for the heavier 10EE & HBX-360-BC.

That said.. when the part is not even CLOSE to "round" (or hex, or..) - say an odd-shaped plate with a cylindrical "feature" on it wanting machined?

It is the 4-jaw that rules. I have "many".

A 3-jaw can only sit and watch. I don't choose to care for and feed mere "spectators".

Jersey John · Dec 23, 2017

Monarchist said:
It is the 4-jaw that rules. I have "many".

A 3-jaw can only sit and watch. I don't choose to care for and feed mere "spectators".

Would agree with most of the above but must say that I have a lovely pair of PB(A) Setrite 3 Jaws (125mm and 160mm) which are just a dream to use

(Once setup)

Also just put a wonderful new Bison 3 Jaw / 100mm on a Walter DH ... Superb quality.

John :cheers:

Monarchist · Dec 23, 2017

Jersey John said:
just a dream to use

(Once setup)

As collets can be, if not more-so..

.. and as long as .. one doesn't NEED the greater GRIP .. roughly double .. of 4 jaws in directly opposed pairs on (stub) Acme threads vs 3 jaws "working" the disadvantageous side of a force-vector equation off a far more fragile scroll.

Power-actuated, NON scroll operated 3-J are another matter, entirely. Those I could have time for if the situation could justify the cost.

corlm · Dec 26, 2017

The lathe has a W25 spindle. It's a large investment but I'm willing to buy a proper chuck to hopefully last as long as I'll own the lathe.

125 gripping size 6-43 within the narrowest sets and 8-120 with jaws turned around.
160 is 8-64 and 102-160. I'm worried about the weight as the lathe is not that large and I have no reference on how much the original chucks weight. The 125 weighs 6,2 Kg and the 160 10,5 Kg, and then there is a backplate on top of that.

I'm also considering buying an independent 4 jaw. The 160 mm 4 jaw weights 6,6 Kg. Is a 125 mm 6-jaw and a 160 4-jaw a good option?

Monarchist · Dec 26, 2017

corlm said:
The lathe has a W25 spindle. It's a large investment but I'm willing to buy a proper chuck to hopefully last as long as I'll own the lathe.

125 gripping size 6-43 within the narrowest sets and 8-120 with jaws turned around.
160 is 8-64 and 102-160. I'm worried about the weight as the lathe is not that large and I have no reference on how much the original chucks weight. The 125 weighs 6,2 Kg and the 160 10,5 Kg, and then there is a backplate on top of that.

I'm also considering buying an independent 4 jaw. The 160 mm 4 jaw weights 6,6 Kg. Is a 125 mm 6-jaw and a 160 4-jaw a good option?

I'd really not worry about the mass of a chuck on a Schaublin (or any other lathe), as by how much it "stuck out", with backplate.

Strong chucks need more "meat" than lesser ones, cannot be as shallow, long-axis. The more important tradeoff you need to assess is that the closer you can keep chuck and workpiece to the first spindle bearing's kingdom, the better-off you can be, but the more absolute grip you may have to give up.

Part of the reason - plus RPM limits - that I have several diameters of 4-J for the same lathes. As actual use gets distributed, it is the "stable" of them that should outlast my needs, so only a few are at all pricey ones. Actually, it is the Tru-Adjust SIX jaw that cost the most...

Luke Rickert · Dec 26, 2017

if you are going to only have one chuck on a 102 I think it is safe to say it should probably be an independent 4 jaw as they are as accurate as you need them to be. A 160mm should be fine on a w25 spindle. I like the thinner and lighter options but really I don't think it matters within reason. A LUD series from TOS in either 125 or 160 should work well. The only reasonably priced back plate I know of would be Stahl Futterflansch (Rohling) O 16 passend zu Schaublin-RCFFSH16W25

if you want something special track down a universal 4 jaw which is a 4 jaw scroll chuck with independant jaws. It is the only general purpose chuck I use on my 102. mine is a Rohm EG in 125mm size http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...le-schaublin-yesterday-330142/?highlight=rohm

L

Jersey John · Dec 26, 2017

Monarchist said:
As collets can be, if not more-so..

... and I couldn't agree more if you're working regular bar sizes frequently but no two jobs are the same for me so the chuck offers a quicker solution. It's generally when I'm making multiples that I use collets or machining small diameters (1-4mm)

John :typing:

Monarchist · Dec 26, 2017

Jersey John said:
... and I couldn't agree more if you're working regular bar sizes frequently but no two jobs are the same for me so the chuck offers a quicker solution. It's generally when I'm making multiples that I use collets or machining small diameters (1-4mm)

John

Dif'rent environment here, John. Reasonably quick-change, and eminently repeatable D1-3 chuck mounts. Even my several collet systems are also on D1-3 mounts, no drawtubes nor arse-end linkages & c. to diddle with when swapping - pure "nose art" every one.

The "new" Cazeneuve presents a challenge, but I have the same goal.

Jersey John · Dec 26, 2017

Monarchist said:
Dif'rent environment here, John. Reasonably quick-change, and eminently repeatable D1-3 chuck mounts. Even my several collet systems are also on D1-3 mounts, no drawtubes nor arse-end linkages & c. to diddle with when swapping - pure "nose art" every one.

Ha

... That's where the "D" mounts come into their own

Not going to happen on the Schaublin 102 or my Hardinge HLV-H

... hence the chuck(s) are more favoured in my environment.

John :cheers:

Charles_nl · Dec 26, 2017

whidbey said:
if you are going to only have one chuck on a 102 I think it is safe to say it should probably be an independent 4 jaw as they are as accurate as you need them to be. A 160mm should be fine on a w25 spindle. I like the thinner and lighter options but really I don't think it matters within reason. A LUD series from TOS in either 125 or 160 should work well. The only reasonably priced back plate I know of would be Stahl Futterflansch (Rohling) O 16� passend zu Schaublin-RCFFSH16�W25

L

It might be worthwhile to verify the external diameter of the collar for a clamp ring to be used (I would strongly advice to use one, especially for the intended larger diameters). That collar diameter should be 60 mm, but at least in the past, these RC backplates would be secured on the lathe with a grub screw on the spindle (which I did not like) as the collars were too thick for a clamp ring. Or turn the collar back of course. They are steel, not cast iron but I don't think that matters really.

Charles

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