Looking for info on a Shaublin 102-80 1965 model

macgyver · Sep 5, 2012

Hi all, I have just bought a 1965 Schaublin 102-80 at an auction and I was hoping to find a little more info about it. I am probably not using the proper terms, but this machine has the front and back toolholders / compound slides on the carriage. the carriage does not move via handwheel, you bolt it in place then use a lever to run in and out. Both the compounds have lever arms to run them as does the tailstock.

Anyway, the questions:
What would you expect the tapers to be in the tailstock and the headstock?

It has a 3 jaw chuck on it, but it also has a large knob that looks like a collet closer on both head and tailstock. Is that what they are or is the tailstock knob a drawbar?

How is the chuck attached?

I have done a little bit of looking and see that there is a yahoo group, I have not joined it yet, I figured that I would start here today.

Thanks for any help,

Jason

SIP6A · Sep 5, 2012

Your lathe looks to use the W20 Schaublin collet in both head stock and tail stock. It could also use the W25 or 5C collets but looks to small for that.

The chuck screws on and has an Allen screw to clamp it on the spindle.

You have draw bars on both ends to hold collets, if you can't pull the head stock one out it probably has a collet on the end of it.

The Schaublin group on Yahoo is a good resource, Arthur Marks from here is very active there

Nice Find
Todd

jCandlish · Sep 5, 2012

There are many many scaned Schaublin documents behind this link.

https://skydrive.live.com/?cid=547F...ECFD561F&id=547FE296ECFD561F!164&sc=documents

Spindle taper W20, maybe W25.

Spindlenose:

Screenshot%2520from%25202012-09-05%252019%253A28%253A57.jpg

macgyver · Sep 5, 2012

Thank you for the links, i was able to get alot of info there. if i am reading the info correctly both head and tailstock are W20. It also looks like it is 855 lbs total.

macgyver · Sep 14, 2012

Well, due to work I haven't been able to go get the lathe yet. I looked quite a bit last week when i was on here about it and sent a few emails off about the availability and price of collets for it and have not heard back from anyone yet. Does anyone have a contact for the W series collets? I am not going to buy anything until i get it home and can confirm what it is.

I was also daydreaming about how hard it would be to make collets for it. I also wondered about making an adapter to use ER collets as they are easy to find. Any thoughts on this? I am not liking the idea of making the collets because I may not be good enough to achieve the accuracy that I would like to have in a collet. It would also probably take me forever.

All just guessing until i get it home, but i keep thinking about it anyway.

Jason

jCandlish · Sep 14, 2012

macgyver said:
Well, due to work I haven't been able to go get the lathe yet. I looked quite a bit last week when i was on here about it and sent a few emails off about the availability and price of collets for it and have not heard back from anyone yet. Does anyone have a contact for the W series collets? I am not going to buy anything until i get it home and can confirm what it is.

I was also daydreaming about how hard it would be to make collets for it. I also wondered about making an adapter to use ER collets as they are easy to find. Any thoughts on this?I am not liking the idea of making the collets because I may not be good enough to achieve the accuracy that I would like to have in a collet. It would also probably take me forever.

All just guessing until i get it home, but i keep thinking about it anyway.

Jason

Forget daydreaming. Just get the correct collets.

Full Schaublin collet sets are on offer at least every other week at www.ricardo.ch . Use 'Schaublin W20' (or whatever you determine the lathe requires) as the search term.

jCandlish · Sep 14, 2012

Here is a comp. 152 unit count Schaublin W20 collets closed at 604CHf.

https://www.ricardo.ch/kaufen/buero...ngen-w20-schaeublin-152-stueck/v/an687885150/

macgyver · Sep 14, 2012

Thanks for the link, that is a nice set pictured, but once i converted it to dollars i see that is much more than i paid for the lathe. that is usually the way it goes, costs more to tool up than buy a small used machine. I will have to keep watch on that site,

MyrtleLake · Sep 14, 2012

Macgyver, with that machine you will either commit to it ($$) or send it along. The least expensive Schaublin W20 collet set will run you 969 Swiss Francs for 1-20mm by 1mm increment. A full set of .5 to 20mm by .5mm increment will be 2026 Fr. Inch collets are comparatively more expensive. There is only one source for "knock-off" (likely) Asian manufactured W20 collets. These are sold by RC Machines in Austria. You can purchase them in a set or individually. In the US, I gave up. There is no viable distributor to recommend. I now purchase from Switzerland. Schaublin workholding had an IMTS booth as well (the American-owned subsidiary of RBC Bearings). The salesman assured me I can buy W20 collets directly from their office in Horsham, PA. I somehow don't believe it is true or that easy based on past experience... but, admittedly, I haven't investigated since speaking with the salesman. It could be possible, I guess :skep:

macgyver · Sep 14, 2012

Arthur, I was thinking that may be the case. I investigated enough to see that when these came up for sale, they tend to go for a higher price than I would have expected. I did inspect the machine prior to bidding on it and I like the build quality, features, size etc. I may just have to buy a few at a time until I have what I need. If I recall I sent an email to the US contact and haven't heard back yet. I may try to call them before going with the Swiss. I will update here what I find out on that route.

SIP6A · Sep 16, 2012

Arthur:

I too talked to the Schaublin collet rep. at the Chicago tool show and I share your skepticism as to them stocking collets in PA. She told me they were getting shipments from Switzerland every week which makes me even more skeptical that RBC bearings is stocking collets. I did get a Schaublin full line collet catalog and a pen!

macgyver · Sep 28, 2012

Well, I finally had the time to go pick up the lathe yesterday. It is home now but still on the pallet until i figure out where it will stay. I have decided that the collets are the W20 in both the head stock and the tailstock. The only thing that it came with was a M2 -W20 adapter and a 3 jaw chuck. The spindle has the draw tube and handwheel to match the tailstock and it is also a threaded nose for the chuck. I did not get to spend much time playing with it.

Here is a picture of the adapter. I am assuming it is a W20 because the body of the collet is 20mm, or very close to it.

Jason

macgyver · Sep 28, 2012

I have not decided which ones to get first, but I that is the plan right now, I will get a few at a time. the M2 adapter that came with it helps too, not as nice as a collet but will allow me to put a drill chuck in it for drilling anyway and get me farther down the road without spending as much to start.

macgyver · Oct 10, 2013

Well, it has been a long time coming, but I finally got to hook up this machine and use it for a small job. It is 440v and I just recently got my transformer hooked up.

The job was only 8 pcs, but it gave me a chance to use it and get a feel for it. I could have done it on my other lathe, but wanted to try it on the 102 ..... I must say that I like it. I have a list of things that I need to do to make it better. I only have the one tool holder, I want/need more when I get a chance to buy. Hard to do multiple ops with only one holder.

The main thing that disappoints me about it is the beat up screws and knurls on the stop screws. I don't really see any signs of true abuse, but the knurling on the knobs for the screws have had their share of pliers on them. I think that I may want to make new ones for it.

I also don't understand the relationship between the carriage and the coolant pipe/nozzle in the back. I can't slide the carriage to the back right in the middle of my work envelope due to the coolant pipe sticking up right in the way. I may get used to working around it, but it seems that it might be in the way most of the time.

I think that I will be adding to it as the funds and need for the collets and such arise, but so far I am very happy with it. I saw some things for sale recently for it at reasonable prices, but couldn't justify spending the money at this time. That is the way it goes, when I get a little set aside for it, the parts won't be available.

MyrtleLake · Oct 10, 2013

Are you using that toolholder shown in your original photos?

As an update to the earlier comments in this thread, I've begun ordering direct from Schaublin in PA. They currently seem to have a scheduled shipment from CH every two weeks. I've been very pleased with the convenience. Pricing is perfectly acceptable in comparison to what I was paying overall to get from Europe. No bank fees, no currency conversion costs, no intn'l shipping, can simply pay with a credit card. Very easy. Kelly can provide accurate and reliable information of stock/availability from the factory.

Even with the rear compound slide adjusted parallel to the bed, does the cross slide action foul with the coolant hose? The double carriage is much longer than the standard, single carriage.

macgyver · Oct 10, 2013

Arthur, yes, I used the one in the picture. Is there a better toolholder? I figured that I would get another like it or duplicate it. In the set up I had going, I used the front slide parallel to the bed to turn the OD, I used the cross slide to set the OD stop/size. I used the front slide (again parallel to the bed) to set my length stop to a shoulder. Then I rigged up a tool upside down on the back slide to part off the overall length,so I had it perp to the bed.

With the rear slide perpendicular to the bed it doesn't leave much room in relation to the coolant pipe. I may just unscrew the pipe and get it out of the way if it becomes an issue. I doubt I will use coolant. I would think that with the rear slide parallel with the bed, it would be out of the way, so maybe I need to rethink how I set them up. If I remember to do it, I may take a few pics of my setup, then everyone can critique my work.

I am interested in others' set ups on this style lathe, I have never really been around one, it has been either a standard manual lathe or a cnc lathe, so I may be overlooking some obvious methods

I am glad that parts are available here now, is their contact info online? I haven't looked.

MyrtleLake · Oct 10, 2013

I'm sure there are others, but the following QC toolposts will work: Tormach OXA, Multifix A and Aa sizes, and Tripan size 1. With the integral 4-stop front slide, I like to use a quick change toolpost with four toolholders set up. Make a cut, exchange holder, rotate stop, make cut, repeat. If making different diameter cuts, I position the tool in the holder so its extension doesn't require moving the cross slide position. As you, my rear position is basically reserved for cut off. With the two slides, though, it also makes a good taper turning position. This is all for repeat ops, of course. No need to position the rear slide perpendicular to the bed, BTW. Just use the cross slide lever for parting off from the back. Keep the rear slide parallel to the bed. Use the threaded stop on the rear slide to position the tool where you want it.

The coolant connection is threaded into a tapped boss on the cast iron coolant pan. As it interferes with your double slide, you might add a right angle fitting that puts the vertical hose section farther back. If my memory serves, it is a 1/2" BSPP thread.

MyrtleLake · Oct 10, 2013

macgyver said:
I am glad that parts are available here now, is their contact info online? I haven't looked.

Schaublin SA,Delémont - COLLETS DISTRIBUTORS
SCHAUBLIN USA, INC
1250 Easton Rd
Horsham, PA 19044
Tél : +1 / 215 672 33 90
Fax : +1 / 215 672 74 81
[email protected]

...the contact is only good for parts in the workholding catalog. Schaublin SA is different than Schaublin Machines SA these days.

I was trying to find some setup pictures for you. In the end, I thought this image was best even though it isn't an image of the lathe itself:

This type of part is where the 102 really shines. Everything was done in one setup. The OD and bore were sized in the lathe as a turning op then knurled. All divisions were done with the integral division plate in the headstock spindle. The perpendicular bores and flats were made with a milling accessory mounted on the compound slide. Same with the hemispherical ball detents on the face---including their central blind bore. Lastly, it was parted off.

macgyver · Jul 17, 2014

I am onto my next project for my lathe. I have a 3 jaw chuck on it and it is just worn out. It is a 5" and I can't remember the brand now, I think something like Hanson? I am sure that it is made in USA though.

I am pretty sure that it is not factory, looks like someone made the back plate for it as it the threads don't look the greatest, not matching the rest of the lathe anyway. Did Schaublin make their own chucks?

What would you guys recommend for a new/different chuck? I don't know that I will ever justify a $4-500+ chuck. Not sure how good the 'cheap' ones are.

MyrtleLake · Jul 17, 2014

Macgyver, I assume you will use the same backing plate for the replacement chuck? Commercial W20 backplates aren't cheap

Do you have enough thickness, then, to machine a new register to mate with the new chuck? Almost every chuck offered as original equipment from Schaublin has had a flat back / backplate. There were a select few that were offered with an integral spindle thread more than thirty years ago. The ones I can think of off the top of my head are a Pratt Burnerd 4-jaw independent and a Reishauer 3-jaw. There may be others, but it is immaterial. They are all extraordinarily expensive -- even when sought used today.

It sounds like a new Bison is out of the budget... maybe a TOS? I've heard good rumor of them though never used one myself. KBC shows a plain back, 3-jaw scroll, 5" with solid jaws (SKU 8-802-050) for $167.70. That might be a possibility? :scratchchin:

Looking for info on a Shaublin 102-80 1965 model

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