T!
The leaks are a common problem, but can easily be repaired. The problem is the 1. generation polyurethane seals that turn into a brittle, waxlike consistency as the years pass. Once they are replaced everything is perfect. This is not an unsolvable mystery problem at all!

The noise comes mainly from the gears inside the spindle head, not from the oil pump.

It's really like a Citroën DS: Fix it, drive it and enjoy it, or get another brand.

Ole

Hi Ole,

thanks for the support!
I've looked into the cross slide and saw a fluid that used to be called oil.
anyway I feel I have to flush the cross slide and the apron incl. sliding tubes.
can this be done with the slide and apron in position or is it wise to disassamble the parts and clean it very good.
tomorrow I'm gonna order the seals for the variators and the sliding tubes.

has anyone a steady rest for sale? my HBX came without any rest, and a steady rest is the minimum you need.

Ducbertus

You'll probably never be satisfied before you have cleaned everyting out properly. Besides, you need to pull the leadscrew anyway to change the seals on the cover tubes. Removing the apron is then easy.

To remove leadscrew remember to follow instructions in the manual: You need to remove the cup with the oilseal to the left, it is a press fit on the bearing outer race sticking out of the gearbox. Then remove the woodruff key. If you just pull the screw the key destroys the seal!

Ole

The manual is a little unclear, they added a ball bearing. This is the main point:


Ole

Thanks Ole,

your drawings are very clear and helpfull.
I know the company who does the technical maintenance in our machine shop very wel and they have 2 Cazeneuve HBX360 in their schedule. they will look for the seals for me.
looking at your drawing, I realize that I need an other one.
The sliding tubes are not really leaking, but when I have to pull the parts apart I'll replace the seals anyway. Because I hate to do things twice.
Tomorrow I'll start to dismantle the variators. I'll let you know my progress.

Ducbertus

Hi Ole,

yesterday I started to pull th lower variator. I removed the hoses, linksystem, cover and the stem.
I am looking at a kind of ring with two holes? (I forgot my glasses). is this a kind of retaining screw? I don't see any thread.

Your input will be apreciated.

Ducbertus

Ducbertus!

Yes, It's a nut, just unscrew it and you can withdraw the cylinder behind it.

Ole

Hi Ole!

I thought so. I tapped it with a dowel and slackened right away.
next thing is to remove the cilinder. I'll use a small puller to avoid damaged parts due to excesive force. just as you described in a previous post.

Bertus

today I pulled the cilinder off with a puller. The sheave came together with it.
obviously there is no pin to block the sheave.
The seals seem to be new. there was still fresh white grease in the cilinder. I noticed there no seal in the cover, leaving a big gap to the nut which locks the cilinder.
I wonder where the oil went through. obviously I´ve to dismantle the whole assembly.

Ducbertus

Ducbertus!

There is not supposed to be a seal in the cover, there is a gap of approx. 0.5mm. The oil is kept inside the cover by centrifugal forces and gravity alone.

It seems that the pin is missing or broken. Do you see the hole it once was in? Without the pin there is no feedback from the movement of the sheave to the control valve, hence no servo action. Trouble!

Ole

Hi Ole,

indeed the pin is missing. as the pin is located underneat the seal, I assume the oil passes the seal by this path. As far as I can see everything seems to be in perfect order.
So, I'll order a pin, assemble the whole and see what's happening.
the sheave has a few running marks where the seal runs. I have a friend with a honing machine to clear the bore. The seals are new. just a bloody moron who doesn't re-assemble all the parts.
I'll let you know about the progress I make.

Bertus

Hi Ole,

just a question. Is there one pin or more? I contacted the Cazeneuve importer in Holland about the pin.
is this the same pin whit the small roller or bearing on top of it to command the inner sleeve? If this is the case, I have to remove the remains of the pin which still are sitting in the inner sheave. Funny, I don't see or feel any damaging or scratching on any what so ever.

Ducbertus

Ducbertus!

Yes, there is only one pin as far as I know, it is the one with the small roller bearing on the inner end to command the inner valve sleeve, and an internal M4 thread in the outer end to facilitate removal. If you have the remains of a pin in the hole in the outer sheave, then probably the pin was broken when the last owner tried to remove the outer sheave half with a large gear puller and some serious elbow grease.

The good side to all this is that if the repair was successful, the lathe might not have been sold to you after all!

Ole

Hi Ole,

today I ordered the pin in the outer sheave at the dutch importer of Cazeneuve and talked a while with Cazeneuve specialist. there seem to be two pins and according to this specialist my small pin in the command sleeve is OK. I'm lacking the outer pin underneath the large blue seal. I hope to receive the pin monday or tuesday. can't wait.
oilchange in apron and slides is also strongly advised by this specialist, which I already intended to do.

Bertus

Ducbertus!

Good going! I think your analysis is right. There probably are two pins, but I have never taken the command valve apart completely, so I have not seen the "inner" pin up close. The pin we have been talking about is the one under the polyurethane seal, located in the seal groove. This is the one transmitting movement from the cylinder and outer sheave half to the command valve slider, it has a little bearing on the inner end and an M4 thread in the outer end.

I think maybe the early examples (before 1975?) has a 4mm thread with an uncommon (french) thread pitch, while the newer ones has a regular M4 thread.

A complete oil change is absolutely recommended, especially in the reservoir for the crosslide. This oil seems to end up contaminated badly with coolant in most cases, and may resemble dirty mayonnaise.

Ole

Hi Ole,

this morning I an hour to put the lower variator together. pretty simple to assemble, I must say. next step was to power up the Caz. Mainswitch worked as it should and I started the HBX. Trying to stop her proved more difficult to me. moving back the lever to an expected stop didn't work. moving further to the "left" position didn't make any difference.maybe it is a matter of learning the lathe. is the only way to stop operating the brake? After I pulled the plug, the HBX came to an halt. I checked the forward/backward lever and could hear the relay klicking and also the switch operated by the brake klicked. So, tomorrow I'll try again and hope to discover more about her. As I also turned the excenterbolt on the cover of the lower variator, I have to adjust it again. Also the belt needs some attention to see of everything is set properly.

the good thing is that the massive oil leak is gone, only a small leak at the nut of the upper variator is left. the lathe does make quiet some nois.

I'll let you know about the progress!

Ducbertus

Ducbertus!

This is very good! The little leak around the nut on the upper variator is probably due to the little cone just behind the nut requiring some attention, or tighten the nut if it is loose. If there is damage to the cone surface you could probably solve the problem by fitting a fiber washer under the nut.

There are two ways to stop the lathe:

-To stop spindle and motor altogether: Step on brake. Remove foot to let spindle coast to a stop, or step firmly until it brakes to a halt.

-To stop spindle while motor is running: Lift speed lever beyond endstop (the speed indicator pointer should disappear from view). If this function is not working you need to adjust the variator stroke, the spring detent on the speed lever on lower variator, and the brake shoes between the upper variator sheaves according to the instructilns in the manual.

Ole

Thanks Ole!!

I'm going to test your suggestions and come back to you what ever the results are.
Furhtermore I'm thinking about buying a Digital Read Out in the near future and a digital rev. counter
This rev. counter is a left over of my former Hembrug lathe and could be helpfull adjusting the variator system.

Bertus

Hi Ole,

this evening I gave it an other try.
found out that the spindle was turning in the opposite direction as the starting lever is moved to. rewired two leads and this was fixed.
after starting again, I tipped the brake pedal and the motor stopped instantly.
so far so good. the spindle doesn't stop at low rpm. I have already turned the excentric bolt at the top of lower cover to the lowest rpm. this didn't solve the problem completely.
So, I've to go through your advices and carefull watch the system.
the loose part of the belt waves a little bit at low rpm. I think checking the system oil pressure at low rpm. will tell a lot about what is happening in the system.
the oil leak at the upper variator is still to solve. I'm less happy about the fact that some oil is spilt out of the lower variator cover.
can you give me an idea about the volume of leak oil which flows back into the tank?
if this is in my case excesive I've to check the dimensions of the lower variator parts.
next step is to look for a pressure gauge to determine

regards,
Bertus

Guys

While you are on the subject of oil etc, I found this 360 on the net and noticed that it has a valve on the oil delivery pipe to the headstock! seems abit odd, any ideas as to what the purpose is?


Thanks
KB