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Thread: New Smart and Brown 1024 Owner (how it came to me)

  1. #1
    craigd is offline Aluminum
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    Default New Smart and Brown 1024 Owner (how it came to me)

    I'm not sure if this is where to post S & B 1024 topics, but it seems to be a quality European machine - so here goes.

    I am a home shop guy. I don’t really have a main theme area that I focus on. Basically I work on stuff, usually repairing or modifying whatever “treasure” I have picked up from an auction, dumpster or cast off that someone has save for me.

    I have had a 15x60 lathe (Enterprise 1550) for quite a few years. I think it is a decent enough machine, it works well for me.

    The majority of what I do would be well handled on a smaller lathe. I have been looking for a good smaller lathe for a while. I knew this S&B was coming up at a local auction (see my thread over on the Deckel, Maho, ... page: "would-maho-mh600-good-home-shop-tinkerer-type-guy-part-ii-218524")

    This S&B was simply another poorly described auction posting (no model number, not even a picture until 3 days prior). I knew this S&B was out of the tool room of a local technical school and was probably a 1024. The milling machine from the same location (purchased a month earlier) had not been used much, had a good bunch of accessories, and really just needed cleaning.

    Once the photo was posted on the auction site, it cleared up the model number, but also showed the broken cross feed.
    Often at auctions, there is a bunch of unrelated items that end up being thrown in – I thought there maybe some pieces associated with the Maho milling machine? I liked that the spindle mount was the same as my other lathe and was hoping there would be a good assortment of accessories. Also thinking the obvious damage should bring the price down.

    Obviously, I went for it. I brought home S&B 1024 Serial Number S7071 (240V 3Ø machine). I have been in touch with Chris at Bracehand – a 1963 machine.

    Re the cross slide, I suspect the rear end of the cross slide was bumped on the far end and that the outer housing (right by the CF hand wheel) got pushed outward – toward where the operator would stand (the feet under the 4 small cap screws remained in place). I have disassembled the cross slide, there is also a small sleeve on the cross slide screw with a short tapered fit to the driven gear of the surfacing feed - this got split. See the pictures posted seperately.

    The machine is badly in need of a cleanup, and the paint is in tough shape (though from various internet pictures, not the worst you’ll see). The cross slide screw is worn in the active region (not quite to sharp points but the top of the thread is about half as wide as in the non-worn region).

    Also, there are no wipers (not even the covers or the holding screws) on the saddle, no tool holders for the QC tool post (Rapid Original Type A) – are the issues discovered so far.

    It came with standard accessories: 3 jaw, 4 jaw, fixed and traveling steadies, collet drawbar, taper attachment, carriage stop and the above tool post. The coolant system is present, less the pump (perhaps this was not original as there is no on/off switch for coolant pump on the control panel). The machine is fitted with a “Brooks Magnetic Break” – I am looking forward to seeing how that works out.

    I contacted the local technical school that had this machine – they generously provided the file on this machine. I now have:
    - Operating and Maintenance Instructions
    - Spare Parts and General Assembly manual
    - 1024 product brochure
    - Series “L” Capstan Lathe product brochure
    - “Additional Headstocks for the Series “L” product brochure
    - Model “A” product brochure
    - Precision 4” Centre Lathe product brochure
    - Revised 1024 wiring diagram (1998)
    The first two are readily available on the internet. I’d be glad to share copies of these with interested folks. If someone can tell me how to post PDF files I’ll try uploading them.

    I am looking forward to getting the machine cleaned up and working, but I am in the midst of building a new workshop (which I wasn’t going to start filling up with machines until the interior walls were up, but when opportunity arrives, sometimes you have to run with it) – so I need to get it further along before going at the S&B. The Maho mill needs some attention too, and since I need a mill more than I need a second lathe (and will likely need the mill to repair the lathe), that puts the S&B a little further down the project list! I’ll post progress pictures, but it will be a while.

    Any advise or recommendations folks want to share - accepted great fully.

    Enjoy, David

  2. #2
    craigd is offline Aluminum
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    Default S&B 1024 Pictures

    Now here are some pictures.







    Also posted on the Yahoo S&B group board.
    David

  3. #3
    penelopepitstop is offline Cast Iron
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    Hello David Nice find and good luck with your new lathe. I think I have the collets for your machine so when your ready and if you are interested give me a shout.

    Ronnie

  4. #4
    drzipper's Avatar
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    Ronnie,

    Do you mean you have a set of S&B collets? If so what sizes do you have?

    PM sent

    David

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    usmachine is offline Stainless
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    Default Looks good from here

    That looks like a stout little fellow you have there, how much does it weigh? I've never seen one here in these parts (Detroit, MI) how about a few specs when you get a chance.

    Congratulations on your new lathe Doug

  6. #6
    drzipper's Avatar
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    Default 1024 Specs

    the 1024 weighs 2600lbs
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails 1024-specs.jpg  

  7. #7
    craigd is offline Aluminum
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    The spindle nose of this S&B is bore for C5 collets (none came with the machine - but I have a set x 1/16ths, I'm hoping to set my other machine up to accept them). I don't know much about the 1024 in general - did they offer it with their own collet configuration?

    David

  8. #8
    drzipper's Avatar
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    David C
    My understanding is the 1024 takes 5c collets. I need spares for my Model A which takes the proprietary S&B collets
    David F

  9. #9
    penelopepitstop is offline Cast Iron
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    Quote Originally Posted by drzipper View Post
    David C
    My understanding is the 1024 takes 5c collets. I need spares for my Model A which takes the proprietary S&B collets
    David F
    David F I have collets here that I believe are for a Smart & Brown lathe but they are not 5C. I am unfamiliar with these lathes and was unaware that the 1024 took the 5C collet which is awesome for David because they are easy to find. I will PM you tonight when I get home from work and give you dimensions,thread size and what sizes I have.

    Ronnie

  10. #10
    bob
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    We have a shop in Regina that could weld that casting. Trick would be to fixture it in alignment while it is heated and welded. The old guy gas welds and this leaves the repair easily machined and virtually un-dectectable after cleanup. Not real cheap but the results are excellent. Failing that we could build a new housing but it would be from steel. If you want to follow up give me a call 306-536-3026
    Bob

  11. #11
    pistonskirt is offline Hot Rolled
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    David

    Thanks for posting with detail & excellent pictures, I think you will be very pleased with your purchase once you get to use the machine, I have become very fond of my 1024VSL which is essentialy the same lathe apart from the variable speed drive & square casting of the head stock.

    I dont know that the cross slide screws were prone to excessive wear & one would have thought heavy use to be unlikely in an educational environment. There is a ball oiler on the cross slide for manual lubrication of the screw which perhaps went unnoticed by some of it's users, not certain that the oiler was present on the earlier machines but mine gets a daily squirt or two religiously. Mark on the Yahoo forum would certainly know this detail as he owns a similar machine.

    Looking at your picture of the damaged cross slide bearing housing it looks as though there may be sufficient in the casting thickness to accommodate 3 or 4 counter bored holes & tappings concentric around the bush, 5mm screws should be plenty if necessary to squeeze things in. I have never had my dial assembly apart (dual metric / imperial on mine) but it looks as though the dial assy can be removed without having to first part the bearing housing from the larger housing.
    If the above proved possible the broken flange pieces could be stuck back on with Devcon repair putty & the original bolts mounted loosely for aesthetic purposes.

    regards

    Brian

  12. #12
    rklopp's Avatar
    rklopp is offline Titanium
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    That broken part looks easy to re-make from a piece of Durabar cast iron or mild steel. Why fart around with a repair?

  13. #13
    Markusfu is offline Stainless
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    Beautiful machine- I think you'll love using it

    Markus

  14. #14
    craigd is offline Aluminum
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    Quote Originally Posted by pistonskirt View Post
    I dont know that the cross slide screws were prone to excessive wear & one would have thought heavy use to be unlikely in an educational environment. There is a ball oiler on the cross slide for manual lubrication of the screw which perhaps went unnoticed by some of it's users, not certain that the oiler was present on the earlier machines but mine gets a daily squirt or two religiously. Mark on the Yahoo forum would certainly know this detail as he owns a similar machine.
    Mine has (actually had) the oiler - the little ball is gone and the spring is poking out of the grime. Hum, the screw has a lot of wear - guessing it didn't see much lubrication.

  15. #15
    drzipper's Avatar
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    Default Smart & Brown Collets

    Ronnie,
    Please PM me on those collets.
    David

  16. #16
    penelopepitstop is offline Cast Iron
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    David PM sent

    Ronnie

  17. #17
    drzipper's Avatar
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    Ronnie,

    TY, I sent my email address so we can do this the easy way.

    All,

    Here is my new 1024, I will post better pics when available:

    David



  18. #18
    Phil Burman's Avatar
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    Looks really good David. Is it in as good a condition as it looks. I don't think anybody makes a beefier 10" lathe than Smart & Brown. You are a lucky man.

    Phil

  19. #19
    drzipper's Avatar
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    Phil,

    The lathe so far appears to be in good shape, the cross-feed screw is worn, which is typical on this machine. There is a worn out bushing in the carriage hand wheel. There is some bed wear and a test bar has yet to be cut. The great news is it came with a pile of accessories, the whole kit. so to speak. So like any other used 50 yo lathe it needs to be sorted out and made right.

    David

  20. #20
    Waterlogged's Avatar
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    David,

    Is that the VFD on the back?

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