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Weiler LZD220 as first lathe?

JanNousiainen

Plastic
Joined
Aug 25, 2017
Hi there,

I have wanted to buy lathe for almost 10 years now but haven't got around to buy one due the usual reasons (space, money, time) but now I think time is ripe.

My needs are mostly making and modifying smallish car parts like bushings, valve guides, brake disc hats etc.

I have possibility to buy Weiler LZD220 for about 1600€:

_243890095.jpg_248547543.jpg_324272067.jpg

Unfortunately I should commit to buying the machine without seeing it due distance but I think if there is something seriously wrong with it, the price could be negotiated down. Also, my experience on buying used lathes is nonexistent.

This lathe is said to be "toolroom quality", what does it mean in practice compared to "ordinary" chinese lathes?

Any opinions on this? For me it seems good match and not too overpriced, capacity is enough, it is good size and weight to fit in my garage or workshop and I somehow prefer old german lathe to new chinese one.
 
If it has enough capacity for your needs I think it's not bad deal here on northern europe. From pictures it looks to be in decent shape without obvious signs of abuse.

Wear on the ways would be most critical part to check. If bearings are same as in 220w they are pretty common and inexpensive to replace.
 
Hi there,

I have wanted to buy lathe for almost 10 years now but haven't got around to buy one due the usual reasons (space, money, time) but now I think time is ripe.

My needs are mostly making and modifying smallish car parts like bushings, valve guides, brake disc hats etc.

I have possibility to buy Weiler LZD220 for about 1600€:

View attachment 206597View attachment 206598View attachment 206599

Unfortunately I should commit to buying the machine without seeing it due distance but I think if there is something seriously wrong with it, the price could be negotiated down. Also, my experience on buying used lathes is nonexistent.

This lathe is said to be "toolroom quality", what does it mean in practice compared to "ordinary" chinese lathes?

Any opinions on this? For me it seems good match and not too overpriced, capacity is enough, it is good size and weight to fit in my garage or workshop and I somehow prefer old german lathe to new chinese one.

Absolutely do not buy it without testing it thoroughly. If you lack the expertise find somebody who doesn't. Doesn't look in good shape to me and for sure it hasn't been in good hands. Depending on what's been done to it ( including "repairs" ) you have a 70% chance to end up with a heavy paperweight. Get a smallish, cheapish Chinese lathe with a D camlock.
 
Absolutely do not buy it without testing it thoroughly. If you lack the expertise find somebody who doesn't. Doesn't look in good shape to me and for sure it hasn't been in good hands. Depending on what's been done to it ( including "repairs" ) you have a 70% chance to end up with a heavy paperweight. Get a smallish, cheapish Chinese lathe with a D camlock.
don't tell anyone but I agree with the unspeakable recommendation. But its also whole different price level, with local prices here 1600 eur vs 4500 eur for smallest, cheapest camlock lathe.
 
If it works it seems fine for the money (as others have said) but it is hard to know for sure without testing or at least some detailed communication, videos etc from the seller. In the hierarchy of European lathes Weiler is not the highest quality but is certainly very good. (think of the Swedish lathes etc as a comparison) When manual machine tools were still made in Europe, a Schaublin or Leinen was much more expensive and more finely made lathe but for starting out that is not really an issue. The Weiler company is also still around which can make getting parts easier.

I would also consider a schaublin 102 if you are looking at making things like bushings and not cutting threads. They are lovely little machines, are easy to move and are not too expensive. I am in Oslo and have some contacts if you want to get in touch. I have also purchased machines from all over Europe and imported them into Norway so can offer some suggestions there. I have only got burned on a local machine that was not under power when I checked it out, all the machines I have imported from dealers have been as described.

Luke
 
I have its larger brother, the lz280 which I use for more or less the same work as you describe. If in good shape they are good lathes. Parts as collets, steadies etc may however be hard to find, expensive and usually both. I made my own backplates, they were unavailable at the time.
 
don't tell anyone but I agree with the unspeakable recommendation. But its also whole different price level, with local prices here 1600 eur vs 4500 eur for smallest, cheapest camlock lathe.

You might want to consider importing it directly from China. Easier than you might think and way cheaper than you might think.
Repairing the Weiller in a fully tooled workshop might be a nice adventure. If it's the only machine around, it might become a nightmarish one. :) AFAIK parts for them are scarce at best. If you do small parts, way wear close to the chuck becomes a BIG issue, so do bearings. On small lathes tailstock alignment is critical etc etc etc etc etc .... Sorry...
 
This looks nice to me FINN – Schaublin dreiebenk for metall if is big enough for what you are doing. A bit over budget but you could sell the the threading attachment etc and get plenty back. Actually if I didn't have two lathes already I would go buy this one ;) Shipping within Norway isn't a big deal

Luke
 
Could be mistaken, but I believe that model swings around 9" and has less than a 1" through hole and with a fairly short bed. Even for smallish auto work it seems limited to me.

The other issue is that it's not well tooled. I don't see a 4 jaw chuck, a center or steady rest, or a faceplate. If those are a smallish Schaublein collet (the one box) rather than 5c (and with a larger through hole), it could be very costly to get a full set. You'll also want a quick change toolpost and a variety of tool holders. I suspect you're looking at as much as another 1000 or so Euro to have it well equipped. Point being that a somewhat larger lathe, well tooled, for 2600 Euro might be the better deal.

Should be decent quality, though, if not worn.
 
This looks nice to me FINN – Schaublin dreiebenk for metall if is big enough for what you are doing. A bit over budget but you could sell the the threading attachment etc and get plenty back. Actually if I didn't have two lathes already I would go buy this one ;) Shipping within Norway isn't a big deal

Luke

Did you post wrong link as that looks like bad joke compared to weiler?
Like no carriage for starters? :D
"Schaublin dreiebenk for metall
Pris
29 900,-"
 
Could be mistaken, but I believe that model swings around 9" and has less than a 1" through hole and with a fairly short bed. Even for smallish auto work it seems limited to me.

The other issue is that it's not well tooled. I don't see a 4 jaw chuck, a center or steady rest, or a faceplate. If those are a smallish Schaublein collet (the one box) rather than 5c (and with a larger through hole), it could be very costly to get a full set. You'll also want a quick change toolpost and a variety of tool holders. I suspect you're looking at as much as another 1000 or so Euro to have it well equipped. Point being that a somewhat larger lathe, well tooled, for 2600 Euro might be the better deal.

Should be decent quality, though, if not worn.

I'd say more like 2000 Euro in extras. And "if not worn" is a big if. In general these things are hunted down by specialists - not much of a chance to get one in good condition as an outsider.

The ideal lathe for smallish work is the Harrison M250 and it's variants. Full range of speeds/feeds and threads, decent bearings, nothing weird to repair/maintain, D1-3 Camlock, 1 1/2" through. On the debit sides they are noisy(ish)and not a lot of cutting power. Very decent tailstock though.

Should I be in the US I would buy it in a heart beat :

Harrison M25 11"x3" Engine Lathe, Loaded, From Technical School Clausing | eBay
 
This looks nice to me FINN – Schaublin dreiebenk for metall if is big enough for what you are doing. A bit over budget but you could sell the the threading attachment etc and get plenty back. Actually if I didn't have two lathes already I would go buy this one ;) Shipping within Norway isn't a big deal

Luke

Nice to have someone local commenting :)

That is actually the same seller as for the LZD 220 I am looking: FINN – Weiler lzd23 metall dreiebenk

Just as I was about to send the money seller told me that the left hand side cover for pulleys/gears are missing and offered 1000 NOK off price. Might be pretty difficult to find replacement part as I want to have safe & original condition lathe.

As for background, I am telecom engineer with a million different hobbies that suck money so I cannot spend that much on lathe but still want to have some capability to make parts for my track day car etc. For years I was looking for mini lathes but somehow I would also like to have something bit, well, older and special. My need for lathe work is most probably only occasional but I would like to have good tool for that.

In finn.no which I mostly check there was Weiler 330 LZ for sale at 15 000 NOK (1550€) and Harrison M300 for 10 000 NOK (bit over 1000€!). Cheap but no idea about the condition and also far too big for my purposes.
 
Nice to have someone local commenting :)

That is actually the same seller as for the LZD 220 I am looking: FINN – Weiler lzd23 metall dreiebenk

Just as I was about to send the money seller told me that the left hand side cover for pulleys/gears are missing and offered 1000 NOK off price. Might be pretty difficult to find replacement part as I want to have safe & original condition lathe.

As for background, I am telecom engineer with a million different hobbies that suck money so I cannot spend that much on lathe but still want to have some capability to make parts for my track day car etc. For years I was looking for mini lathes but somehow I would also like to have something bit, well, older and special. My need for lathe work is most probably only occasional but I would like to have good tool for that.

In finn.no which I mostly check there was Weiler 330 LZ for sale at 15 000 NOK (1550€) and Harrison M300 for 10 000 NOK (bit over 1000€!). Cheap but no idea about the condition and also far too big for my purposes.

The Harrison 300 is an excellent machine, too. In particular for a telecom engineer. :) Get a Harrison in reasonable condition and you have a lathe which can do almost anything. Do NOT get too small a lathe ( or mill... ) because that's going to bite hard one day and from there on, every day. We all start with too small a lathe - I don't think I started mine in 15 years. :) Having the ability to use Camlock plates to hook various ( cheap !) chucks, collet chucks ( ER50 !) or fixtures on the machine quickly and conveniently is absolutely priceless. I would not buy a Schaublin if it would be gold plated and should I really need one, I'll make it. That's by the way, pretty easy.
 
It all depends one what he needs to do, you might notice my slightly missed typed qualifier about if it is large enough. For someone starting out and making little bits and bobs you can do much worse than a 102. I have both a 102 and 135 (so small instrument lathe and a full blown tool-room lathe) and use both for different things but the things you can do plenty with a 102 is surprising and it is just really nice to work with.

If you look the whole ad you guys would see that the little schaublin comes with a good selection of tooling including a full set of w20 collets, a face plate, a three jaw with both sets of jaws, and the valuable if not so useful milling and threading attachments which would return much of the purchase price when sold in Europe. Getting a 4 jaw and some tool holders isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But if one needs to cut lot of threads or do heavy work then a different machine would obviously be a better choice.

L
 
In finn.no which I mostly check there was Weiler 330 LZ for sale at 15 000 NOK (1550€) and Harrison M300 for 10 000 NOK (bit over 1000€!). Cheap but no idea about the condition and also far too big for my purposes.
"2-man carry" small garage size lathes are always the most expensive sort as almost everyone has enough space to have one. And even if someone won't need the lathe it wont take too much space so no imminent need to sell it away.
 
If you look the whole ad you guys would see that the little schaublin comes with a good selection of tooling including a full set of w20 collets, a face plate, a three jaw with both sets of jaws, and the valuable if not so useful milling and threading attachments which would return much of the purchase price when sold in Europe. Getting a 4 jaw and some tool holders isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But if one needs to cut lot of threads or do heavy work then a different machine would obviously be a better choice.

L
I think the same as AlexO that even the LZD220 is bit on a small side so the plain-version 102 is 5 times worse that. Turning anything longer than 80mm or 90mm on a plain 102 Schaublin is inconvenient at best. For random automotive bits and bobs I'd take badly worn Weiler over pristine condition plain 102 any day.
YMMV and just my 2c
 
As for background, I am telecom engineer with a million different hobbies that suck money so I cannot spend that much on lathe but still want to have some capability to make parts for my track day car etc. For years I was looking for mini lathes but somehow I would also like to have something bit, well, older and special. My need for lathe work is most probably only occasional but I would like to have good tool for that.

Bit OT but bears mentioning : the major issues with small lathes are not enough strength in the apron gears ( can't take a big cut - you rub endlessly ) and not enough inertia in the spindle/chuck combo. Will you ever need to drill a 20mm hole through 50mm of steel ? A small lathe won't like that. Part length is an issue, too. Gears can be sourced or made should need be. But spindle bearings can be a major investment. You can ( with some care ) fit a brand new pair of Gamet "superprecision" bearings in a Harrison for 500 Euro and if you get it right it'll turn round within a couple of microns. Again, that is priceless for a hobbyist without a cylindrical grinder. Fitting a bearing on a shaft or in a bore is one of the most common things and if you check specs you'll find most lathes fail. Buy a proper tool with clear cut capabilities and good re-sale value. Not a dilapidated toy.
 
It all depends one what he needs to do, you might notice my slightly missed typed qualifier about if it is large enough. For someone starting out and making little bits and bobs you can do much worse than a 102. I have both a 102 and 135 (so small instrument lathe and a full blown tool-room lathe) and use both for different things but the things you can do plenty with a 102 is surprising and it is just really nice to work with.

If you look the whole ad you guys would see that the little schaublin comes with a good selection of tooling including a full set of w20 collets, a face plate, a three jaw with both sets of jaws, and the valuable if not so useful milling and threading attachments which would return much of the purchase price when sold in Europe. Getting a 4 jaw and some tool holders isn't a big deal in the grand scheme of things. But if one needs to cut lot of threads or do heavy work then a different machine would obviously be a better choice.

L

I made A LOT of watchmaker's tools on a 102 40 years ago. Lovely machine ! Great for miniature stuff if it has a full set of collets in mint condition.
 
In finn.no which I mostly check there was Weiler 330 LZ for sale at 15 000 NOK (1550€) and Harrison M300 for 10 000 NOK (bit over 1000€!). Cheap but no idea about the condition and also far too big for my purposes.

Weiler 330 or M300 for the above prices will go usually in a heartbeat assuming that spindle rotates at all(if it rotates with sound of concrete mixer it counts) and ways are not missing pieces after hammered with Mjölnir. :D
 
I doubt that any working weiler is not head and shoulders above the chicom price equal.

The three jaw chuck comes with both inside and out side jaws! that is a boon right there. A threaded adaptor for a four jaw is a fun and trivial afternoons work. The chucks are always available. It is the adaptor that is the hurdle. Don't let it be a stopping point.

Wear of the bed ways is insignificant for most short work. When is the last time you needed "tenths" over 50 cm? Not an issue!

There is nothing in that machine that would stop the show as far as money goes less than the spindle bearings . And that would be one of those "show stoppers" that could be negotiated.

A left side gear cover is trivial. you must have tin bashers in your region..

eta

I purchased my LZ330 for $800 . What a machine! With all tooling. I would not let it go for 6 times that .....
 








 
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