Any of you guys an ESOP?
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    Default Any of you guys an ESOP?

    ESOP's seem to be fairly common in the manufacturing industry. We became 40% ESOP owned in 2007 and then 100% in 2012. All in all, it's been a great move so far. For those of you that are, I was curious of your experience.

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    I worked for an ESOP. It was OK I guess. The issue I had is that they kind of sold it as a viable retirement investment. You get shares of the company and sell them when you retire. But, my experience was that even if the company did well, you'd be much better off to have a 401K or IRA, which is what I did. But, most guys there refused to believe that. They were headed for a rocky retirement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cranny View Post
    ESOP's seem to be fairly common in the manufacturing industry. We became 40% ESOP owned in 2007 and then 100% in 2012. All in all, it's been a great move so far. For those of you that are, I was curious of your experience.
    I can't say for certain if I'm an "ESOP" or not, but I have been called an "SOB" many times over the years!

    Later,
    Russ

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    I think this is a fable thread?


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I think this is a fable thread?
    ----------------
    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Likely an allegory in there, somewhere.

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    In case anyone else wondered:

    Introduction to ESOPs - ESOP Information

    Paul

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    I think this is a fable thread?


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox
    Took a couple of seconds but I got here. Well worth a like.

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    I sent off for a DNA test a couple weeks ago to see my ethnic make-up. I think I am Heinz 57 made up of many ingredients, I could be part ESOP, we will see.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I sent off for a DNA test a couple weeks ago to see my ethnic make-up. I think I am Heinz 57 made up of many ingredients, I could be part ESOP, we will see.
    Maybe even some Putz eh?


    ----------------

    Think Snow Eh!
    Ox

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    Quote Originally Posted by cranny View Post
    ESOP's seem to be fairly common in the manufacturing industry. We became 40% ESOP owned in 2007 and then 100% in 2012. All in all, it's been a great move so far. For those of you that are, I was curious of your experience.
    I think one of the USA's larger professional serial bankruptcy firms tried it and came a cropper. May have been done primarily to bust unions from more clever angles than usual. That was part of their biz model as well.

    Had originally been founded as a rather bad airline ("Untied", was it?) before they found the bankruptcy line-of-business schtick less like actual work.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ox View Post
    Maybe even some Putz eh?
    Schmekel, rather. There's a dilution factor, each generation of DNA. Or just cold weather.

    Eventually, it's just "starter button" sized and ready for gender-change (there's that fable thing, again..) surgery.

    Dress warmly on that snowmobile. VERY warmly!

    "Miss Baby was all right, 'til me and Junior here turned her gender back around!" [1]


    [1] with 'pologies to "Brother Dave" Gardner.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Schmekel, rather. There's a dilution factor, each generation of DNA. Or just cold weather.
    "Putz" as in "Heinz R. Putz"....

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    "Putz" as in "Heinz R. Putz"....
    Too receptive by half, that...

    Sure hope all that Erie snow ain't gifted y'all cabin-fever victims with no eerie identity crises.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul39 View Post
    In case anyone else wondered:

    Introduction to ESOPs - ESOP Information

    Paul
    Lots of advantages to employers and stockholders listed there. Not so much employees.

    Can't see why I'd want all my retirement invested in one company. A portion, maybe, but no way would I do that instead of an IRA or 401k.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Monarchist View Post
    Too receptive by half, that...

    Sure hope all that Erie snow ain't gifted y'all cabin-fever victims with no eerie identity crises.
    We did break our all time record yesterday....

    Haven't seen many sleds out on the many trails around here.
    Lord knows they spent enough on grooming machinery.
    McKean Snowriders
    PISC Presque Isle Snowmobile Club

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    Quote Originally Posted by digger doug View Post
    We did break our all time record yesterday....

    Haven't seen many sleds out on the many trails around here.
    Lord knows they spent enough on grooming machinery.
    McKean Snowriders
    PISC Presque Isle Snowmobile Club
    ISTR my '79 gran Wagoneer Quadra Trac as 12 days old when a tail-end of February blizzard dropped right around 4 feet of snow on Metro DC in just over a single day's time.

    Bemoaning I hadn't done a snowplow with the deal, as half of my 780 feet of driveway ran thru a gully about 3 to 5 feet below adjacent terrain.

    No fear. The Subaru DL 1800 burrowed UNDER the drifts, tiny flat four grumbling like a 1940 Buda Semi-Diesel buried out of sight in some damned cold-war bunker.

    Tall Wagoneer just bulldozed 'em, grille and windshield served just as well as a plow.

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    A company I used to work for went ESOP.
    In our case, what that meant is that the founders pulled a lot of cash out of the company, by "giving" us all stock, and paying themselves for it. So they got rich. Of course, the company was then indebted and cash short in general. Within a year or so, it went bankrupt, and was bought by a competitor. My shares, of course, are worthless.
    But the year I got them, the IRS called them income. So I paid tax on their imaginary value. I probably could have recouped that cash, but I was young and dumb.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ries View Post
    My shares, of course, are worthless.
    But the year I got them, the IRS called them income. So I paid tax on their imaginary value. I probably could have recouped that cash, but I was young and dumb.
    Depends. Not so young, jury dismissed, hung, on "dumb" once recouped VAT on - IIRC $9600 Sterling - one month of my fees, that project, given London's costs - after quite some time of trying to dun it out of a deadbeat client.

    Time having passed, had to satisfy the audit Inland Revenue threw at the firm. Auditors fees, our side, cost far more than the amount recovered.

    "Body Corporate" and VAT registered, no other choice. Failure to chase one set of rules can violate harsher ones, yet, and on your own side.

    Individual? Usually do have choices, even if selecting only among degrees of bad ones.

    Back to ESOPS? ISTR Lincoln - the welder folk - getting a lot of press, and a very, very long time ago, for what was rated a good one. At that time.

    Not sure more recent veterans still agree, and STR we have that commentary already in a PM thread not too far back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by paul39 View Post
    In case anyone else wondered:

    Introduction to ESOPs - ESOP Information

    Paul
    I find it hilarious that they couldn't afford a $20 license for their video music. You can still hear the premiumbeat.com watermark in the beginning

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    Wow, interesting replies to say the least. I hate to hear the negative responses because it's really been a good thing for us. I should also clarify, our company never claimed the ESOP would take the place of everyone's retirement. We offer and encourage contributions to a 401K, which we match. The ESOP is a great retirement piece to supplement your own retirement portfolio. The original owners, who built the company, could have sold it to the highest bidder and walked away leaving the employees at the mercy of the new owners. Or they could sell it to the company creating an ESOP, which they did, thereby giving the employees a chance at reaping the profits later at their time of departure. There's no chance of that happening if they sold to someone else.

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