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Anyone hire or have hired outside salesman for your shop?

Econdron

Hot Rolled
Joined
May 31, 2013
Location
Illinois
I'm just a welding and fab shop, but we specialize in custom displays and furniture stands/bases. Welding shops everywhere make a ton of this stuff already, so it's not difficult for someone to go to any welding shop and get a reasonable price on getting this stuff made. However I've got my shop geared up for this kind of stuff, so we can almost always beat the prices and quality of other general fab shops. I would consider this a pretty specialty market, so I'm considering hiring an outside salesman to go and market to wood working companies, and contractors that do restaurant renovations and such. I've tried mailing out promotional fliers and catalogs, but that was a flop. Word of mouth has been huge for me, lots of companies coming to me because they heard about me from someone else, which makes me think there's a decent market for this stuff that I need to promote in person.

I've got a couple relatives who are also business owners, and they all tried the salesman thing for their businesses (very different from mine), and they have all had absolutely no luck. Is there a trick to this? Ideally I'd like to get someone on a trial basis to see if it actually works, like 2 months trial or something. What are your thoughts on this? Ideally I would love to get out there myself, but there's too much I need to take care of at the shop I wouldn't trust anyone else doing.
 
I don't know one single success story. But, I am aware of many wasted dollars. (not mine!)

I sit on the large manufacturing company side of things, but of the shops I've given repeat business to in the last few years:

One already had a long relationship with the company when I started.
One came in through word of mouth from another part of the company.
One came in through a business card showing up at the door.
Two came in through their hired salesman. Of these two one we didn't like working with. The first time the salesman came we got great delivery time. Unfortunately he was better at getting them work than they were at growing for the work and each subsequent order was more and more behind (and at a slightly higher price). We put up with it due to their quality being better than alternatives, but long term wanted out unless they expanded a bit. I've changed jobs since then so I don't know how it turned out.
The second one through an external salesman is relatively new, but I'm optimistic.

I find a lot of suppliers through trade shows, but have not had stellar machine shop results. It seems all the machine shops I find at trade shows don't have something that will make me want to use them. These things are:
1) Local to me, IE easy enough to try out for something simple.
2) Have a capability my local shops don't, or are closer/better quality with the same capabilities.
3) Better lead time at equal quality and capability.

It seems most of them are another new small shop with a couple Brother mills and a surface grinder. I hope the best for them but need a reason to take a risk with a new place.
 
Completely unrelated to metal working industry, but salesmen can grow your business.

Insulation company local to me was approached by a guy who sold the service/product of insulation in commercial and residential buildings. . Said his current boss didn't like the piece of the pie he was taking home and wanted to cut his pay, he was looking for a new employer.

The local guy is now operating in many states from Missouri to Colorado and adding more insulation trucks to his business on a regular basis. I am the guy that builds his remote controlled boxes to turn on water, blowers and material in said trucks.

That being said the local insulation man is a farmer that started looking for something to do in the winter. He is very smart at making money. He has the midas touch.

If you can find that one guy who knows how to sell and names his price on performance, you better step up and feed him. You both will profit.

Regards,
Alonzo
 
a good friend of mine started/owned a sheet metal business for many years. he was VERY successful. he had an outside salesman - HIMSELF

(then with lots of money to spare he decided that he should sell his successful business and get into the rv campground business. he' s not so flush now)
 
Several of my customers have outside salesman, many of them located in other states. One customer specifically started ordering a lot more from me. When I asked if that was related to anything they said their new salesman was doing really well. I too have heard of lots of wasted dollars, but all my suppliers have plenty of salesman, so it must be doing something for them too. Sounds like the trick is hiring the right person.
 
No one can sell your services like you can. Identify the firms that you want to do business with, then take the time to visit them with a list (pictures help) of things you can do. Get to know who you need to talk to at each company, and stay in touch with them. Ask for their business. Do your best when a job is offered. Don't get discouraged. Regards, Clark
 
if you hate talking to people get yourself into toastmasters and apply what you learn, read the book guerrilla marketing you are the salesman unless your a shop that is big enough to have systems in place for a salesman and your not (because your asking this question, a good top of the line salesman is 6 figures easily and then you cant keep up with the work they produce, lower grade, used car sales man types, grease ball your existing customers its nasty and they promise things you cant produce) Im in a differet business line but it basically all is the same. in 2006 I got in with a guy who ran his own consulting firm in my industry who is also a top of the line salesman this guy can sale cow shit to a dairy farmer my business blew up from 90,0000.00 in 06 to 830,000,000 in 09 there was 3 of us working 60 a week that was minimum ( these are gross numbers)but i failed to realize I had turened into a one trick pony all my other clients i wasn't answering the phone for because I coundnt get to them. then the recession hit our area it took 3 years and numbers dropping below my 06 numbers to drive through my thick skull that I am the sales man I started reading self help books started going to toastmasters and learning to sale (for some people, sandlers sales training works wonders) I pulled my head out of my ass and and my business rebounded not to the high numbers but I also have a life now when the guy I used to do the one trick pony for for calls I answer the phone I still give him special care but he is on the to do list just like everyone else. okay this was long
 
A salesman needs some directed leadership and strategy to be successful. What are your expectations for hiring the "Sales Guy"? If you are looking at hire a guy and let him do all the work he will fail and so will you. You need to figure out what you want and how to sell it before someone else can do it for you.
 
I've worked in a couple of shops that had a dedicated salesforce - some of the guys were great salesmen, others were pretty useless. If you're considering hiring a new employee, my suggestion would be to figure out if it's better to hire someone to do what you're doing right now while you hit the road and sell, or if you can successfully manage a professional BSer, who is out of your sight 99% of the time, being the face of your business, and extending his reputation as your reputation (good or bad.)

One alternative: there are salesmen out there who represent more than one shop: they essentially act as machine shop brokers for a cut of anything they sell of yours. Of course, this puts you in direct competition with other shops for the exact same work, so you're not getting rich off work that comes in like this. BUT, it is work coming through the door.
 
We had an outside sales guy for a few years, I think he brought in one job that we did once and that was it. No skin off his back though he was making commission off everything we sold except for a couple of our biggest clients whether he was involved with it or not.

He had lots of notes regarding his visits with companies and people so I know he wasn't completely screwing the pooch or anything but I think he didn't quite understand you're supposed to under promise and over deliver, not the other way around.
 
Nobody here seems to be talking about the compensation part of having an outside salesman or sales "representatives". Our company was doing OK back in the 80's but felt it was time to move out of the Military-industrial realm and try to broach the commercial side of manufacturing. We were approached by a company (husband and wife team) who had all sorts of glowing letters of recommendation, but only a couple from companies we knew of. We didn't think anything of it at the time, but that should have been a red flag. Without doing too much research other than contacting the two companies we knew, we hired them and signed a 12 month contract. Based on their reputation and recommendations, we agreed to a 5% commission, thinking that was only to be applied to work they actually brought in. When they started asking for commission checks, we balked because they hadn't produced any new contracts. That was when their lawyer pointed out that we had agreed to 5% on ALL of our contracts for the year, not just what they brought in and threatened to sue us. At the end of the year, we had paid them a hefty sum for doing absolutely nothing to bring in any work and were sending their checks to a P.O. box in Florida. We later found out that most of the letters of recommendation were completely bogus and not unlike a typical Ponzi scheme, they had worked hard to help the first 3 or 4 businesses that hired them and then used their glowing letters of recommendation to get new clients.
Several years later, we hired a guy who had lost his (outside sales) job at an industrial supplier due to a cutback and had decided to do the "company rep" thing himself. This time, by Gawd! we weren't about to be skinned, so we did some research and found out that he actually had been a very successful rep for one of our suppliers and was laid off because they were closing the local office. He had been offered the same job in another branch but turned it down because of family ties in the area. So far, so good. We agreed to a 7% commission ONLY on new contracts that resulted from his contact. After about 6 months, he had produced absolutely no new work because he spent all of his time visiting his old business contacts with companies that we already did business with and NEVER went anywhere else. He was only interested in schmoozing and spending time in other peoples' nice offices than actually selling. Finally the "Old Boy" goodwill ran out and he couldn't even get in those doors.
So, both situations turned out poorly for us, but we didn't lose any money on the second. Lesson finally learned. Now, our products are selling all over the world due to simple word-of-mouth and a simple "showcase" website that doesn't even take orders.
I would suggest that you should (A) find someone reputable, with a verifiable track record, to design a great-looking website and update it occasionally, (B)check out business organization events, like "Chamber of Commerce Business After Hours" get-togethers and go to trade shows, home shows, expos and the like and hand out lots of business cards.
Another lesson learned - Don't fall for the printing salesman's pitch about sending out flyers. It is hard to put together a flyer that tells an adequate story of what you do and then target whom to send them to and it is an expensive and time-consuming task. Most printers won't work with pictures you take, they have to be done by a professional photographer they recommend at an inflated cost. Then within months, the flyer will be obsolete and the majority of the ones you sent out went directly into the trash.
One thing that HAS worked - get business cards printed in two or three "styles" that might appeal to slightly different potential clients -you know not all of your customers are the same- Vistaprint is a great place to get them really cheap, just spend a few minutes - literally - at your computer and they show up in the mail a few days later for pennies apiece.. Since you can have both sides printed, you could choose to tell a little story about your business, its history, the owners, etc, or, put a discount coupon on the back for them to use the first time. This has really worked for us when making "cold contacts" at business-social functions like the ones I mentioned. Another thing we have seen is that unlike flyers, a card is easy to put in a wallet or purse or tack up on a bulletin board. We've given out cards that produced calls weeks or months later. This is an investment that really pays you back.
 
I'm just a welding and fab shop, but we specialize in custom displays and furniture stands/bases. Welding shops everywhere make a ton of this stuff already, so it's not difficult for someone to go to any welding shop and get a reasonable price on getting this stuff made. However I've got my shop geared up for this kind of stuff, so we can almost always beat the prices and quality of other general fab shops. I would consider this a pretty specialty market, so I'm considering hiring an outside salesman to go and market to wood working companies, and contractors that do restaurant renovations and such. I've tried mailing out promotional fliers and catalogs, but that was a flop. Word of mouth has been huge for me, lots of companies coming to me because they heard about me from someone else, which makes me think there's a decent market for this stuff that I need to promote in person.

I've got a couple relatives who are also business owners, and they all tried the salesman thing for their businesses (very different from mine), and they have all had absolutely no luck. Is there a trick to this? Ideally I'd like to get someone on a trial basis to see if it actually works, like 2 months trial or something. What are your thoughts on this? Ideally I would love to get out there myself, but there's too much I need to take care of at the shop I wouldn't trust anyone else doing.

Since you are too busy takin care of the shop. Interview one of your guys in the shop. Train him what you would like to say and hope he can say half of it right like you would. I dunno, how many hats you wearing?

I would choose an employee that like asks to use the shop machine to fix something at lunch. Or a fellow married with kids kinda starting out. Or whatever you think is best. Get ideas from the guys about it. Shop meeting!! Lunch on the boss!! Emphasis on what? Custom fabs or quick delivery or what ever.

The best bet would be sending out a salesman (rep) along with one of the guys. One guy can pour the syrup and the other can keep it technical.

You probably got the resources to pull it off. A credit card (with a limit) for the guy so he can travel etc - or just do a day trip. You says you have too much you need to take care of at the shop cause you wouldn't trust anyone else doing it. To me that says alot because small business owners is about the most trusting people I know when it comes to work and hell even in life. Hmmmmm is that all that's holding you back? Hey if the people around you didn't fuck-up once in a while you wouldn't be so right about not trusting.

If its in your head and you got the resources ..... what the hell either way you'd be right.

If you do hire a rep then a litmus test for me is to ask'em if they ever looked at your company's website. You would be surprised how many sales people do not search for a webpage before going on a sales call.
 
I used to have a sales rep, that worked out pretty well.
I found a few things that made it worth it-
First- it wasnt just somebody I hired and I paid- it was somebody who was already in the business of selling stuff like I made to places that bought it.
He was in the industry, already making a living selling similar things.
He repped a bunch of other people, and, to me, what made it worth it was that the costs of his doing business were spread out between several companies, not just me.
He paid for his own booth at tradeshows, he was there anyway, every time- the buyers knew and trusted him.
I would not hire a guy just to randomly make phone calls for me.

What you want is to find somebody who is already selling to your market- store display manufacturers, or the architects and contractors who are doing lots of stores.
My brother in law used to be a guy like that- he was an architect, who worked mostly with a company in NYC that sold store displays- slot wall, waterfall clothes racks, stuff like that. A customer would come in to the store fixtures company, and buy 20 grands worth of stuff, and say, who can lay this store out for us, and my brother in law would get the call.

What you need is a guy who is selling stores fixtures, or is designing a dozen stores a month, and is already speccing that stuff.
And so, you need to figure out who is already selling to those guys, and pay him to rep you.
Most likely its still in NYC, for many stores.
Furniture manufacturing is a bit different, but again, a lot of the reps are still in NYC.

I cannot imagine signing a contract that gave the rep a percentage on any orders they didnt write- somebody was asleep at the wheel on that one.
percentages vary from industry to industry, and by order size- 5% to 10% is probably in the ballpark, with the percentage dropping with really large orders.
If, for example, the guy hooks you up with every starbucks being built, I wouldnt expect to pay 10% on volume like that. But for a ten grand onesie job, its gonna probably be 10%.
 
You will not hire a successful sales person unless you agree to pay full commission on all customer accounts that they sell. A good salesman will not stay where they have to contend with House accounts and cut-outs. Regards, Clark
 
Salesman or not, that is the question

I'm just a welding and fab shop, but we specialize in custom displays and furniture stands/bases. Welding shops everywhere make a ton of this stuff already, so it's not difficult for someone to go to any welding shop and get a reasonable price on getting this stuff made. However I've got my shop geared up for this kind of stuff, so we can almost always beat the prices and quality of other general fab shops. I would consider this a pretty specialty market, so I'm considering hiring an outside salesman to go and market to wood working companies, and contractors that do restaurant renovations and such. I've tried mailing out promotional fliers and catalogs, but that was a flop. Word of mouth has been huge for me, lots of companies coming to me because they heard about me from someone else, which makes me think there's a decent market for this stuff that I need to promote in person.

I've got a couple relatives who are also business owners, and they all tried the salesman thing for their businesses (very different from mine), and they have all had absolutely no luck. Is there a trick to this? Ideally I'd like to get someone on a trial basis to see if it actually works, like 2 months trial or something. What are your thoughts on this? Ideally I would love to get out there myself, but there's too much I need to take care of at the shop I wouldn't trust anyone else doing.


I have seen a number of businesses such as yours in the same situation. There are several things to consider:
1. Do you have a plan that the salesperson can execute? It's neither fair or wise to just send someone to go sell if you don't have goals and a direction to send the rep.
2. You know your business in and out, but that doesn't make you the best salesperson. Your business can suffer if your operations suffer because you are out selling, and your sales can suffer because no one is promoting you to new clients. It is best to leave sales to someone who is skilled at selling.
3. Do you have the means to recruit, train and then manage this new rep or team? These all take time and expertise that may not be in your wheelhouse.
I can help you with exactly this;it is my specialty. Give me a call or shoot me an email. 862-249-1359 [email protected]
 








 
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