boss volunteered me for a job shadow question and story.

Hey guys, Today I put a young man at the controls of our new plasma table.

I am the only guy in the shop with any cnc experience and decided to put him at the controls and coach him. I taught him to do cad, cam and the machine software and was able to walk away in less than an hour to do other things.

How would you pay a person that can hit the ground running in an hour with an occasional question?

Good employees are the most difficult part of building a strong business. Reliable, quick learners move up quickly or get frustrated and leave for greener pastures. Plan on paying to keep him, whatever that means in your job market.

alonzo83 said:

Hey guys, Today I put a young man at the controls of our new plasma table.

I am the only guy in the shop with any cnc experience and decided to put him at the controls and coach him. I taught him to do cad, cam and the machine software and was able to walk away in less than an hour to do other things.

How would you pay a person that can hit the ground running in an hour with an occasional question?

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My ol' man always says to hire the best people and pay them the best you can afford.

In a couple years, if the shit hits the fan and you're out for a few weeks, THATS the guy who's going to be able to keep the place running.
Not just someone who can make a part to a print, but someone who can actually think for themselves.

alonzo83 said:

Hey guys, Today I put a young man at the controls of our new plasma table.

I am the only guy in the shop with any cnc experience and decided to put him at the controls and coach him. I taught him to do cad, cam and the machine software and was able to walk away in less than an hour to do other things.

How would you pay a person that can hit the ground running in an hour with an occasional question?

Click to expand...

It is not just a raise, thing. First of all you need to be competitive as far compensation goes. but not way over the norm, slightly above, max 5%, what he could get just walking off and asking for a job. That puts him in a place where he has to look hard to find something better. But more important than anything, keep him interested, and make him like what he does. Keep the projects coming, get him involved in the planning and put him in front of the customer, of course only if he is presentable . But you know what i mean, he needs to feel as part of the solution. Watch him grow, and give him raises when you think he gained experience that makes him more valuable to someone else. Just giving the guy a raise will not make him loyal to the place. You have to make him want to stay, and honestly that is a job by itself .


dee
;-D

To me says two things, first both of you seem to be quick learners and secondly you make a good teacher. Maybe his flair is cnc, only time can show.

dcsipo, Those are truly words of wisdom, I've owned my business for 28 years and that is the best way to grow with your employees.

alonzo83 said:

...
How would you pay a person that can hit the ground running in an hour with an occasional question?

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If I had a dollar for every person that looked like a rocket scientist in the first days, weeks or even months.........
Bob

Just to clarify, no I don't get this young man as a hire he was job shadowing. he will be moving on to an engineering degree.

I find it ironic that I hire a homeless welder with mad skills one week only to find he has severe issues, to teach a young man much brighter than I to run a machine I do not trust the owners around the next, and hoping I get to see where he lands 20 years from now. .

Portable Welder said:

dcsipo, Those are truly words of wisdom, I've owned my business for 28 years and that is the best way to grow with your employees.

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You got about 14 years on me...i started mine in 2002.

dee
;-D

alonzo83 said:

Just to clarify, no I don't get this young man as a hire he was job shadowing. he will be moving on to an engineering degree.
........

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How long did/does he do this? Days, weeks, months. Unpaid?
I pay my future engineers that I know full well will leave me poop. But I do pay for a lot of their school tuition and book costs which kind of makes up for it.
I think it's actually a good deal all the way around but it takes longer to get to the degree though this path.
I get really bright kids and teach them life on the floor. They get a degree, move on, and have some respect for those with chips in their shoes.
A week or a even a year of shop work and cleaning sludge tanks is not enough time to round them out.

I could not have someone for even one-two days unpaid. That is just not right. Where did this internship, job shadow crap start?
If the school or training program wanted this I'd find a way around the rules and provide some reasonable type of perk.
With a young man it does not have to be cash and can cost you next to nothing.
Bob

alonzo83 said:

Just to clarify, no I don't get this young man as a hire he was job shadowing. he will be moving on to an engineering degree.

I find it ironic that I hire a homeless welder with mad skills one week only to find he has severe issues, to teach a young man much brighter than I to run a machine I do not trust the owners around the next, and hoping I get to see where he lands 20 years from now. .

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offer him part time or summer jobs....all eng students need money .

dee
;-D

I seem to keep reading in PM that it's getting harder and harder to find qualified machinists. Isn't there any national or state operated training facilities? If yes who pays for the training? Good machinists don't grow on trees.

IOW is the number of technical schools and colleges going up or down and if so, why?

JITE v4n3 - A Comparative Study of the Trends In Career and Technical Education Among European Countries, The United States, and the Republic of China

Gordon B. Clarke said:

I seem to keep reading in PM that it's getting harder and harder to find qualified machinists. Isn't there any national or state operated training facilities? If yes who pays for the training? Good machinists don't grow on trees.

IOW is the number of technical schools and colleges going up or down and if so, why?

JITE v4n3 - A Comparative Study of the Trends In Career and Technical Education Among European Countries, The United States, and the Republic of China

Click to expand...

There is lots of free education offered but if you want to know what one big hangup is to the free training and getting it you will have to message me I am not going to be frank publicly about it. The issue is very touchy and just my luck I would hurt someone's feelings by sharing my experiences with the class. .

Gordon B. Clarke said:

I seem to keep reading in PM that it's getting harder and harder to find qualified machinists. Isn't there any national or state operated training facilities?........

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Some yes, but very many have dried up simply due to lack of enrollment. Budgets and programs just plain withered and died.
A buddy of mine made more money on a state grants teaching kids how to program and run cncs than he did making parts. Those days are long gone.

With the crash here many parents, teachers and counselors steer young ones away from manufacturing and towards health care, banking or computer programming.
Once a highly skilled position, machinist is now a trade almost regarded right up there with garbage man or security guard.
It is starting to reverse course a bit but the bitter taste of huge numbers unemployed is still present.
Witness Kpotter's thread a bit back with a mom and her kids in his shop.
Bob

State Technical Schools do have degrees and the people who pay for the classes is not the government but the individual who pays out of pocket or borrows money to repay later to complete college. There are Government programs which do provide Pell Grants towards college expense and aid for people who come from a certain background may receive aid because of that. Here for a time Race was considered a factor to avoid discrimination and also Veterans are always encouraged to go to college and do receive plans to pay for college if they served. I do not believe that there is much in this world which is free unless it may be a gift from someone. Here they have very good intentions overall when people go to college to learn our trade yet we have already lost many many factories and jobs to other countries over many years. This has been happening since the late sixties.

The problem, IMHO is most young people are told from day one that college is the only path to success, and they buy it lock, stock, and barrel. Instead of learning to be competent, they have a piece of paper that states they are, and a ridiculous amount of debt to go with it.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

I seem to keep reading in PM that it's getting harder and harder to find qualified machinists. Isn't there any national or state operated training facilities? If yes who pays for the training? Good machinists don't grow on trees.

IOW is the number of technical schools and colleges going up or down and if so, why?

JITE v4n3 - A Comparative Study of the Trends In Career and Technical Education Among European Countries, The United States, and the Republic of China

Click to expand...

I'll give you the sad truth.

Kids are taught that working with your hands is bad. Going to college is the only way to get a job. Companies reinforce this by requiring a bachelor's for many entry level jobs that could be done by any bright individual. Even if the bachelor's is completely unrelated to the field, having letters after your name is the only way to get in.

Trade schools are shrinking. Due to liability, budget cuts, and lack of interest, schools are closing or downsizing all classes of this type. I've been looking at advancing my own knowledge by taking night classes. The only thing I could find is a local(ish) community college offering night welding classes. I'm still thinking about taking them, despite it meaning I'd have to give up more time with my family, in the short term.

Apprenticeships aren't a thing anymore, unless you can get in with a union that does them, and people have their own strong feelings about unions.
The apprenticeship I just completed is the only INJ (Individual, Non Joint) funded machining apprenticeship in the entire state. There are exactly TWO other joint funded apprenticeships for machining in the state.

My company is actually working with the local tech college to build a better machining curriculum, to produce more skilled machine operators (not even machinists, just good operators) to eventually bolster their massive growth with local employees. We have donated money, books, instructor time, and several machines, from bridgeports to older Swiss lathes for their classes.

But that doesn't happen anymore. You don't see that in big companies because there is no immediate profit to shareholders that can be shown. Bean counters don't appreciate the value of a skilled work force. They see the cost of the machines, and the instructor time, and that's it. We can do that because we're privately owned, and our owner actually believes in empowering, bettering, helping people. Corporations don't.

That's just how it is.

TeachMe's answer is one of the sad truths some of us are battling daily. This morning I saw a chart in Cutting Tool Engineering

MAZ- Reader

showing the loss of manufacturing jobs in the U.S. from 1980-2011, where we went from just under 19,000,000 jobs to about 11,500,000. It's come up to almost 12,000,000 manufacturing jobs nationwide since then, but losing 1/3 of the jobs in that period makes it hard for people to justify entering the career, especially since the mid-stream jobs don't pay as well as they used to compared to others. Top people still do well, but it can be hard to tell a person who just completed two years of school that they're going to be paid about the same amount as their friend who still thinks working at the burger joint and smoking himself stupid when he's not at work is the life to live. Until the mainstream American is willing to pay more for domestic products, manufacturing will have to compete by being more efficient. The companies investing in automation are doing it, but the companies led by bean counters who don't have the vision to invest are struggling.
My crystal ball isn't clear enough to show me the answers, but I'll keep on working with schools in my area to keep the trade alive and progressing. The free market culture we live in makes it interesting.

Mike Rowe (formerly of Dirty Jobs) has started a foundation to give scholarships to send students to trade schools; not college. Profoundly Disconnected
His philosophy: "We're lending money we don't have to kids who can't pay it back to train them for jobs that no longer exist. It's nuts!"

Like in all things, you'll have to pay what the market will bare. Many here have already said that. I would only add that you should beware of thinking that's a permanent, one time thing. Good people are hard to find. EVEN HARDER TO KEEP! Keep him just a smidge above what the guy down the street will pay him. THAT will tell him more about what you think of him than ANYTHING! The old saying "Money talks, bullshit walks" is alive and well.Keep him interested by giving him things to make his mind work, sure. But keep up with his money and how that compares locally.