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Dealing with co-workers.

Dscally

Plastic
Joined
Mar 19, 2018
Hi everybody.

Iv been floating around the forum all day (public holiday in Ireland) and I've been soaking up a lot of info. This truly is a treasure chest of resources. Thank you.

But alas I need some more guidance. I've recently been promoted to Workshop Manager in our company. Our company specialises in Robotic and Automation Systems and our tool room is only a small section of the company. We have one Hurco VM1, two Bridgeport manuals and a Triumph manual lathe as well as belt sanders, pedestal drills and the likes. The downside to being promoted is that I still have to work on the tools to meet demand as well as take care of other duties such as welding, taking charge of health and safety and so on. A typical day is VERY busy for me and so I rely a lot on my co-workers to help out where they can. And credit where it is due, the guys do pull their weight.

All except one! The only guys allowed to run the milling machines/lathes are myself and, another guy. Lets call him Bob. Bob is a Toolmaker (Irish term for machinist) by trade and the title is where it stops. I can only guess that the guy had a really bad mentor during his apprenticeship because he has no concept of how cutting tools work. He cant tell me the difference between climb milling and down milling, cant calculate speeds and feed, cant sharpen a drill bit and so on. I regularly catch him milling with end mills in a drill chuck because 'He doesnt have time to be changing collets.' He is hugely argumentative and gets very defensive if I try to explain to him what he's doing wrong. If I told him the sky was blue he would argue that it was red. All of this I can deal with as I only give him jobs that he cant really cock up and everyone is happy.

The thing that really gets to me is his attitude towards house keeping. Simply put the guy is a lazy slob. Any machine he lays his hands on is a mess. Cutters, drill bits, clamping tools all left under piles of chips and coolant. Cutters knocked into the coolant tray, nuts and bolts left all over the work bench.......the list goes on. Its when it spills over onto my machine is when it really gets to me. Instead of tidying away the clamping tools for his own machine, he feels its perfectly ok to take items from a different machine to save time. Nightmare.

The problem really lies in the fact that we are good friends and he is actually a pretty decent worker in other departments such as assembly and installatons. But he likes machining and wants to be at it all the time even though he is costing us a fortune on broken and lost tooling. Iv tried to ask him several time to keep the workshop tidy and organised (I'm trying to inrtoduce a tool inventory system) and he is all for the idea and agrees completely but then completely ignores what I have said after an hour or two.

How do I deal with this kind of situation? I have very little experience in managing workers like this. Is it my problem? Is it HR's problem? Any advice or wise words would be greatly appreciated. Please dont see this as a rant.
 
Your problem is that as you stated he is your friend. Don't hesitate to tell him that you are no longer his friend and that you are now his supervisor... permanently! You cannot have a personal relationship because he will walk all over you as he has demonstrated. Time to cut the strings and see if he will change his attitude or do the three strikes your out process. Sometimes writing someone up once will solve the problem. If it takes two more times then so be it and HR will show him the door.
 
Don't expect HR to fix it. If he is your friend, he will do as you ask. If he does not do as asked, he is not your friend. After all, business is business. Is there someone else who can be trained up to do his job? With his work habits, it does not sound like it is very demanding. Maybe if he sees someone else moving in on his territory, he will straighten up. Have a written policy regarding workplace cleanliness, and make him sign a copy. If he continues to refuse to follow the procedure, give him a week off, or just a real shitty job. I don't know how the work laws are over there, but it sounds like he is just lazy and needs a good wake up call.
 
Your in the thick of a mess...

Not sure if this is right or wrong...but having had family and friends work for me I say outright I am giving you a shot at the position because you are a friend. If you take the position our friend, relative ties become null and void during work hours.
I cannot treat anyone special...I have told one of my daughters to get off the floor and punch out for goofing off instead of doing what she was supposed to do. My other daughter alway's does me proud when she works here...she just works and works, takes instructions well. Wife's cousins fiance needed money, I needed a hand...I was quiet reluctant, but he came in and bust his hump.

So what am I saying...spell it out, put your cards on the table. Tell him your position hinges on his job being done as it should. Business is business, if he cannot get his act together he will be asked to leave...written up or whatever consequences yous position provides.

I know I had one great friend that would give the shirt off his back for me...but I also knew I'd never allow him to work for me...even when I knew he was desperate for work. Stubborn, hot tempered, defiant...loved to goof off. Had I hired him...we'd have never been friends again.

Sorry, no answers here...lousy situation for sure.
Good luck
 
Bob is a Toolmaker (Irish term for machinist) by trade and the title is where it stops. I can only guess that the guy had a really bad mentor during his apprenticeship because he has no concept of how cutting tools work. He cant tell me the difference between climb milling and down milling, cant calculate speeds and feed, cant sharpen a drill bit and so on. I regularly catch him milling with end mills in a drill chuck because 'He doesnt have time to be changing collets.' He is hugely argumentative and gets very defensive if I try to explain to him what he's doing wrong. If I told him the sky was blue he would argue that it was red. All of this I can deal with as I only give him jobs that he cant really cock up and everyone is happy.

The thing that really gets to me is his attitude towards house keeping. Simply put the guy is a lazy slob. Any machine he lays his hands on is a mess. Cutters, drill bits, clamping tools all left under piles of chips and coolant. Cutters knocked into the coolant tray, nuts and bolts left all over the work bench.......the list goes on. Its when it spills over onto my machine is when it really gets to me. Instead of tidying away the clamping tools for his own machine, he feels its perfectly ok to take items from a different machine to save time. Nightmare.

The problem really lies in the fact that we are good friends and he is actually a pretty decent worker in other departments such as assembly and installatons. But he likes machining and wants to be at it all the time even though he is costing us a fortune on broken and lost tooling. Iv tried to ask him several time to keep the workshop tidy and organised (I'm trying to inrtoduce a tool inventory system) and he is all for the idea and agrees completely but then completely ignores what I have said after an hour or two.

Machinist? Sounds more like a professional bullshit artist. Such a person has no business near machine tools let alone running them and sooner or later your company will pay dearly for letting him.

I wouldn't give a rat's ass what he "likes". If he can't cut it in the shop he should either stick to assembly or find another place of employment.

As for the sloppiness and bad attitude I have seen this numerous times and such people are incapable of changing because THEY don't think they have a problem - everyone else in the world does. I'd bet dollars to donuts he's a druggy or the offspring of one. In any case he should be restricted to what he can handle.
 
Business is business and personal is personal. Not everyone can deal with this, even if you agreed before hiring.

If Bob can make the company $100 per day at gardening, but you have it averaging a $10 profit as a machinist, what makes business sense keeping him there. If I were you, I would move Bob back to gardening and then he can do after hour or downtime training to be a machinist. This will make him choose how badly he wants to do what he wants to do.

Another thing to remember is if he remains there and starts being a negative for the company, who will loose out? Being the manager/owner can suck badly quite often.

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I regularly catch him milling with end mills in a drill chuck because 'He doesnt have time to be changing collets.' He is hugely argumentative...Please dont see this as a rant.

Not a rant, just the first time you've run up against the downside of being in charge. He's not gonna remain your friend. Face it, he's not your friend now, judging from how he's sabotaging your career. Time to look out for yourself and the family you support or expect to support. Life is cruel, there ain't no easy way to fire somebody. Do it and get it over with.
 
Much like everyone else is saying. At work you are co-workers, after work you can be friends. You need to take him aside and spell it out very clearly with no grey area. Make sure everything is spelled out very clearly, maybe even write it all down and have him sign it. If he still won't listen, write his ass up. You don't need a "friend" that doesn't respect your position as a manager.
 
Is there a chance this guy (friend) is somewhat ass hurt you got promoted and he did not?
As said in the post above, you are going to have to make a choice, keep what you think is a friendship intact and fail at doing your job or simply put what you expect into clear plain language, have him sign it and then INFORCE what you say.

You should know damn well that others in the shop notice this behavior as well, if you do not nip it in the bud NOW you will never maintain the respect of the other workers.

You do not have to be an asshole, you do what it takes to run an productive and safe shop.
His choice to follow fare rules or not.

Here is a bigger issue though..
Do YOU have the backing to do what is needed from YOUR boss? Does he have your back?
You need to know this.
If your boss will not give you direct backing to do what must be done....step away.

One alarm that went off in my head was you saying you have to man the equipment as well as run the floor....been there done that and it damn near killed me stress wise after a while.

For your on health...find out where your boss stands on dealing with this guy, make sure they aint just blowing smoke up your ass to get twice the effort from you with a small percentage in wage increase....boss's dangle carrots in front of us jackass's all the time to make us hump and jump.
 
Thank you all so much for your clear and informative replies.

I think that maybe his attitude stems from the fact that I have more power over him even though, on paper, he is more qualified. You see I am not a machinist by trade, but rather a welder/maintenance tech who happens to have a lot of machining and CNC experience. And I guess he does feel a bit sore when I try to tell him how to run a machine.

I have read and double read your comments and taken it all on board. It is truly a tough situation and one I need to approach carefully. Thanks to your suggestions I have decided on a solid plan of action. Here it is:

1. I have drafted up a Workshop Compliance Contract, which I will expect to be read and signed off by anyone who has business within the bounds of the Workshop area. This way I have absolute proof that everyone is on the same page in regards to workshop safety and etiquette. It will also give me a leg to stand on if I need to take disciplinary action in the future.

2. I think it was hobbyman who suggested the 3 strikes process. This is a fantastic idea and certainly one which I will be enforcing. First strike will be between myself and the offending worker, second strike will result in the Boss being notified and third strike......well if it comes to it I hope to have the full backing from higher powers.

3. I will speak to my superiors in relation to doling out disciplinary actions and find out where they stand if things ever happen to go south.

4. I will implement a tooling inventory management system and record all consumables being used by each worker and this should hopefully highlight any excessive tool usage by any one person.

5. A 10-15 minute time slot will be worked into the end of each shift, specifically for tidying and returning tools.

6. Lastly, I will have an informal chat with BOB and point out each and every problem I want him to address and of course listen to any suggestion he may have so as to help him tidy up his act (pardon the pun).

By all means, I want this type of behaviour eradicated sooner rather than later, but I don't want to be one of those guys who rules with an iron fist. Our shop has a good team dynamic going, and I certainly don't want to disrupt that, but if one guy is holding the team back by dragging his heels, then I guess I will have to cut the rope. Let's hope it doesn't come to that.
 
From post # 1 it doesn't sound as though Bob is a machinist...

He may be able to operate machine tools somewhat but he not a machinist.
 
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On paper doesn't mean squat, it's what you can do physically. Using a drill chuck to mill, Bob's not to bright. You do that in shops I've worked in you're either going to debur or push a broom. When you accepted the promotion then you no longer have friends at work, you're management. From what you describe Bob needs to go. I hope your boss has your back cause guys like Bob cost the company to much money. Nothing more irritating then trying to do precision work with butchered tooling.
 
6. Lastly, I will have an informal chat with BOB and point out each and every problem I want him to address and of course listen to any suggestion he may have so as to help him tidy up his act (pardon the pun).

Don't make it an informal chat, he will not be listening, not remember, or not take it seriously

Like someone above said, be very clear, put it explicitly in writing.




Or

Just have him transferred to assembly, have HR handle it all and have it be "their fault"

They will probably be better at framing it so he can accept it - for the good of the company because the company REALLY NEEDS him. It's not a demotion, it's a lateral move.


Then he either fits in and works out, or he quits on his own.
 
2. I think it was hobbyman who suggested the 3 strikes process. This is a fantastic idea and certainly one which I will be enforcing. First strike will be between myself and the offending worker, second strike will result in the Boss being notified and third strike......well if it comes to it I hope to have the full backing from higher powers.

That's more or less standard procedure for most companies here.

1. A verbal warning.
2. A written warning.
3. You're history.

Almost everything here is pretty much ruled by law. Rules for almost everything. Most are sensible and have stood the test of time.

Danish employment law - DELACOUR
 
Drill chucks are for hobbyists. I always clamp drill bits in collets. A good drill has a ground shaft and costs more than a turned one, so no fiddling there.

A talk with Bob under four eyes. Relationship at work is not friendship. I am your boss. It’s about doing the work right, earning money, safety, and the future. Tell him that calmly and one time. He will adapt. If not, fire him.
 
Watch what you put in writing..apparently something that is not labor legal can make th ewhole contract null and void...at least here where I am.

Make sure before you take any action you DO have the Full backing of management...nothing worse then firing a guy to have your uppers call him back.


A machinist on paper means nothing if they do not follow through in the real world.

A machinist knows the reasons why we do not stick an endmill in a drill chuck...but Bob does it anyway. So we say he is Lazy...easier to chuck up an endmill in a chuck that is already in the spindle. His laziness is taking priority over the work being done as good as it can be...as expeditiously as it could be..does care if he greatly reduces endmills life and ruin the accuracy of the chuck. So yes...on paper he's great...in life he's lazy and willing to sacrifice quality for a few minutes of his time that he IS being paid for.

Your being promoted over him is his doing...not yours. Apparently your managers can clearly see this as they gave you the position.

Remember...if the friendship is lost...that is going to be HIS doing, not yours. Unless of course you go radical on the guy...but from your questions and concerns...I do not see that as an issue.

Good luck.
 
Drill chucks are for hobbyists. I always clamp drill bits in collets. A good drill has a ground shaft and costs more than a turned one, so no fiddling there...

Well that's just a waste of time. Sure if the accuracy needs it then put the drill in a collet. But for the majority of drilling and reaming applications drill chucks will work just fine. Now for actual milling, f that.
 
A couple of quick thoughts.....
GENERALLY when people are that defensive about being taught new things its because they realize they should already know what is being taught but do not.....and he feels that somehow taking the offered advice is admitting something negative about his abilities...or lack thereof.
My second thought is more along the supervision line.......I have found that when something must change (house keeping habits) you can not ASK someone to change......asking implies that not to change is acceptable. Unfortunately this is an occasion where (you may need management backup here)he will need to be told what is expected...no exceptions
just my .02 cents
 








 
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