Electrical quote seems high

Mooner · Nov 22, 2016

Hey Guys-

Hoping for some feedback. I'm expecting my Okuma M560 to arrive soon. Got a quote for some new electrical feeds and the quote seems high to me, but would like more seasoned opinions:

3 runs total:

1: < 10 ft / 480v 3ph / 10 amp for air compressor
2: ~ 25 ft / 480v 3ph / 75 amp for Okuma
3: ~ 25 ft / 480v 3ph / 10 amp for ChipBlaster

The air compressor needs a disconnect. Includes breakers, conduits. Etc.

Ballpark, how much should this cost me (metro Seattle)?

Thanks!

Mike1974 · Nov 22, 2016

Just running lines from an existing breaker box? Installing a transformer? Or are you actually running new 3 phase from an outside line?

I don't have much to contribute, but you will probably need to give a little more info...
I can say the PT job recently had an estimate to run 3 phase from an outside line about 20 feet away and was told something like $20k!! :eek:

Now I can't say what all that included, or if there are/were some stupid zoning conditions or whatnot...

Comatose · Nov 22, 2016

What are they coming off of? Breaker box? Bus duct? I would guess given it is worth posting about that your quote was north of $5k. Is this an area that all electrical work requires a certified union master electrician and two assistants, a permit, inspections before and after and an environmental assessment for additional stray electric fields?

At my place that is $600 in labor and about the same in materials, but that is an in house job for us. Contracting it out in Ohio I'd ballpark it at 3 grandish, depending on what it ties into.

The Dude · Nov 22, 2016

I always like to work from labor and materials and I see <$1K in materials (maybe even less than $500) and I'm thinking a guy could do this in a day so let's say about $1K labor and then more for permits and all the other crap (travel, "environment fees" LOL) so I would think it should be under $3K.

I haven't done this in a while but I always ask for "breakdowns"; in your case by machine run and then each of those time and materials (I always think that helps keep them honest). Just like we're sometimes asked!

Curious as to whether I'm close to their quote or close to what you're thinking it should be.

The Dude

Pathogen · Nov 22, 2016

The $20,000 figure sounds reasonable for location.

LKeithR · Nov 22, 2016

I would think that the easiest way to "validate" the price is to get several quotes...

countryboy1966 · Nov 22, 2016

I'd guess $3-$4K.

garyhlucas · Nov 22, 2016

I used to be an electrical contractor. If that was all the information you gave me I can tell you the price would be really high! You don't say what the local building codes are, does it need Romex, EMT, Ridgid pipe? Is a circuit breaker needed in the panel? Does it require a workman's disconnect near the machine? DOes the contractor need to pull permits, is an inspection required? I used to give customers a quote for a job like this that ran about three pages, of excruciating detail. They'd tell me "I can get it done for half that much!" I'd say "Okay give my quote without the price to the other guy. If he'll do what I wrote for half the price you got a really good deal"

We worked for a fair price not the cheapest. You got a breakdown, we had truck radios before cell phones, and I'd have a guy there in no time. Remember that when you ask me to quote an installation.

Tonytn36 · Nov 23, 2016

From what pricing I can see, looking at about $1500-$2000 in materials and I'd figure 16 hours labor (2 guys, 1 day (4 AWG isn't easy to pull by yourself), + lift rental if required. Have no clue what the labor rate is for a commercial electrician in Seattle runs, but around here in TN that would be about $1200 in labor + service fee.

WILLEO6709 · Nov 23, 2016

those fused disconnects get salty if specifying new. I have good luck with ebay on such items. Realistically figure about 4 hours of your time, about $600-1000 in materials ( at industrial discount if you get that, which you should), and I think you can print an electricians license online...... that said in Seattle I would doubt the bill to be under $3k unless you know someone.

Guest · Nov 23, 2016

Is this run from an existing box with space for new breakers straight down the wall? Does the service need to be upgraded? A new sub panel? A lot of variables. On a simple job looking like you are in the high rent district, I see $700 in materials or so with a quick look at Graybar (A trip to Lowe's combined with some online shopping should beat that)I will go 4x that and call it $2800 which puts me inline with a few others here. If you are in an area with PITA building inspectors and permitting procedures a local electrician could add a huge irritation factor to his bid. These jobs are so much better to have done by inside guys (I do all my own wiring) without permits.

Gordon B. Clarke · Nov 24, 2016

I don't seem to be the only one wondering why, considering what has to be done, only one quote has been asked for.

I'd probably ask for 3 if it was me. I'd also think about that the cheapest quote might not be the least expensive long term. How much for example is included in each quote?

Gordon B. Clarke · Nov 24, 2016

Doug said:
Twice I have been told by licensed electricians in this area(Seattle) that they are are not allowed to do work without permits. Doing it risks loss of license. First one who told me was doing a new panel in my rental, I wasn't sure if he wasn't just telling me that because he wasn't interesting in doing side jobs.

The second guy is a friend who confirmed the first guy's story.

We do have inspectors, I wouldn't say they were PITA types, but all my recent work has been done under permit by professionals so the inspectors haven't been a problem.

I've done quite a bit of my own residential wiring in the past that passed inspection. Codes have changed so much I wouldn't even try these days.

Here our two power currents are 220v and 380v. Only a certified electrician is allowed to do work with 380v installation. If you don't have a receipt for work done with 380v and something goes wrong then to put it politely, you are in deep shit. Insurance certainly won't cover.

Mebfab · Nov 24, 2016

Here in america you would be pressed to get insurance to cover anyway.

Mooner · Nov 25, 2016

These runs all coming from existing Siemens 480v panel. Plenty of capacity in the panel. That's why I'm a little surprised by the cost.

First quote is at $5k. Of course I will get a couple more quotes - just wasn't expecting such a high number.

I don't know local code, but I would expect all 3 runs will require rigid conduit.

dksoba · Nov 25, 2016

Mooner said:
These runs all coming from existing Siemens 480v panel. Plenty of capacity in the panel. That's why I'm a little surprised by the cost.

First quote is at $5k. Of course I will get a couple more quotes - just wasn't expecting such a high number.

I don't know local code, but I would expect all 3 runs will require rigid conduit.

Would it be possible to run all the wiring yourself but not hook it up, and just pay an electrician to hook it up for you? That way you save money on the labor and materials. The electrician can check it and then do the last bit of hooking up. Obviously you have to make sure that everything is easy to verify (it might be hard to verify that you used 8 awg wire all the way through the conduit, but at the same time if you have a receipt for a certain length of 8 awg wire, it's unlikely that you somehow spliced in some 10awg in the middle of the conduit, who would do that?)

Cheers,
Matt

alphonso · Nov 26, 2016

Checked prices locally using parameters of how I would do it and come up with $550.00 to 650.00 for materials. About 4 to 5 hours by myself if the fucking phone would stop ringing.

countryboy1966 · Nov 26, 2016

Mooner said:
These runs all coming from existing Siemens 480v panel. Plenty of capacity in the panel. That's why I'm a little surprised by the cost.

First quote is at $5k. Of course I will get a couple more quotes - just wasn't expecting such a high number.

I don't know local code, but I would expect all 3 runs will require rigid conduit.

Usually local codes go by NEC codes as they are very thorough and well written. However what isn't clear is the local inspector quirks if any...

With that said, your 3 runs will most likely be ran in either EMT or PVC SCH 40 Conduit. I'm going to guess PVC because of cost and easy of work ability unless you specify otherwise.

I recently used 4" Pvc for 400AMPS single phase power (500 MCM Wire Size) and it was completely to code and approved by the building inspector.

Ox · Nov 27, 2016

I recently used 4" Pvc for 400AMPS single phase power (500 MCM Wire Size) and it was completely to code and approved by the building inspector.

Two 250's are easier to pull and handle.

--------------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Guest · Nov 27, 2016

countryboy1966 said:
Usually local codes go by NEC codes as they are very thorough and well written. However what isn't clear is the local inspector quirks if any...

With that said, your 3 runs will most likely be ran in either EMT or PVC SCH 40 Conduit. I'm going to guess PVC because of cost and easy of work ability unless you specify otherwise.

I recently used 4" Pvc for 400AMPS single phase power (500 MCM Wire Size) and it was completely to code and approved by the building inspector.

Most municipalities in the state of California where I escaped from take NEC codes and then pile on top of that, sometimes to the point of ridiculousness. I once made the mistake of getting in an argument with an inspector that obviously knew vary little about electricity and was just parroting what his boss told him to say. The guy wanted a solid earth ground wire run through a rubber grommet exiting the service entrance instead of a metal screw connector for cabling that was being used. His reasoning was vibration from an earthquake could shear off the ground wire. I first asked him if he was serious and then when it was obvious he was, I lost it. It was that incident that made be decide no more permits. California inspectors were a joke you could take the same small job and call out 5 different inspectors, you would get a range from zero to a dozen violations depending on who you got. Ok, done ranting.

Electrical quote seems high

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