1 - company , 2 buildings less than a mile apart

JB @ C and L Machine · Feb 12, 2012

Our current location has no room to grow, moving the whole company is not in the cards, as it would cost too much to move the machines die to there size, ie the CNC floor mill. We are considering another shop less than a mile away to set up shop b. The plan would be move some machines such as the 100" fellows gear shaper as it takes up alot of room. Some fab equipment and hopefully a place for a future Vmc.

rj newbould · Feb 12, 2012

Is there some sort of question or useful statement in there?

Myrmidon · Feb 12, 2012

I know of one company in the milwaukee area that has about 5 plants (all small 20 to 30k square feet buildings) in a 5 block radius of the original building.

For medium sized work like you guys do, it can be a pain in the dick to have to move 100" gears a mile down the street, and if you forgot something and have to move it back, thats all cost that either 1) has to be quoted in or 2) eaten.

Rule of thumb is (according to a supervisor at that place i was talking about), they charge 500 dollars if that part has to get on a truck once.

If your guys are good workers, you won't have to worry about supervision, if they are not. Well then its a worry you might want to consider.

If you do get a different building just remember to size it for growth. Or you will be buying a 3rd building.

JB @ C and L Machine · Feb 12, 2012

rj newbould said:
Is there some sort of question or useful statement in there?

Yes...asking if others have tackled the same thing with success!!!

Myrmidon · Feb 12, 2012

1 Thing I did forget: The machinery builder I worked at did this successfully back in the old days

Set up 1 shop to do all the larger stuff (IE: your boring mills) and the other shop to do all the smaller stuff that will not end up in the heavy shop.

Prevents that scenario of having to double and triple handle large gears, but kicks your idea of moving that shaper (unless its rarely used).

Or bite the bullet and find a new building and move everything. Because if you have made the same mistake alot of places have when they get bigger and bigger capacity tools. Your cranes are starting to be pushed towards max capacity and for alot of work you might not have as much headroom as you would like.

It costs alot to move, but if you have to turn down paying work because you can't lift it onto your machine, your losing one of the advantages of having a floor mill instead of a table bar.

kpotter · Feb 12, 2012

I have my shop split up one side for shipping and handling the other for manufacturing. It sucks. I almost want to get a second set of machines to use for fixing little things that come up. I would avoid 2 shops like the plaque. 2 electric bills 2 property taxes to sets of employees two phones to roofs to fix, no way bad idea.

SND · Feb 12, 2012

Might not be ideal but if its the only option at least its only a short healthy walk away.
If the ROI says do it, do it, obviously machines in each building need to earn the square footage they're taking up.

PeteM · Feb 12, 2012

You've got lost opportunities or added expenses regardless of what you do: stay small, split the shop, or find a larger place to house everything. Only thing I'd add is that moving some large machines to a larger space might not seem so expensive once you figure all the costs. For example:

- Good deals available on other space?
- Better customer impression with one larger space?
- Greater ability to arrange machines for better workflow?
- Is it good or bad to end up with two slightly different cultures?
- Less ability to have an overall feel for how jobs are progressing?
- Double the insurance costs?
- In some cases two sets of books, work orders, CAD systems, etc.
- Extra supervision required?
- Mix-ups in delivery of materials?
- Shuttling work between locations and machines?
- And so on, as noted above

One rule of thumb is that having up to about 300 people at a single location is pretty much optimal in terms of having people work together, know each other, solve problems, etc. Another rule of thumb is that around 30 people (platoon size) can work even more closely.

Chip Chester · Feb 12, 2012

Not enough room for expansion? Even a "mezzanine"? Or maybe a new, bigger building built over the current shop, while you keep working?

Chip

S_W_Bausch · Feb 12, 2012

rj newbould said:
Is there some sort of question or useful statement in there?

He's asking for permission, I think

Put your office there, and install a 900 number for your employees to call you.

Block 900 numbers on the company phones, make them use their cell phones.

Should be able to pay for utilities by the 900 number with those "I don't mean to interrupt you, but I need....".

Mix-ups in delivery of materials?

Simple matter of putting up a sign:

"This is Location Two, nnn Podunk Road, of C & L Machine. PLEASE CHECK YOUR DELIVERY BILLS If we find you are delivering to the wrong location, YOU WILL BE RELOADED, AND RESCHEDULED FOR ANOTHER DAY."

If you MUST have two locations, contact every vendor, every shipper, every customer with a "We now have two locations, PLEASE READ!" form letter. Enclose multiple refrigerator magnets with both addresses show.

Can the considered location "grow"? Even a roof-over free-span would allow any building to grow while the larger building is being constructed.

At the original site, just take over the parking lot, and shuttle employees from/to the second location? If you have guys that "have to" take lunch off-site and fail to come back on time, this concept might solve (at least) two problems.

Have you spoken to the adjacent owners? Unless you are a mind-reader, you may find that someone isn't happy where they are, or will be retiring, etc.

Have you priced the cost of moving, versus the cost of not moving, versus the cost of a second location, versus the cost of buying out a neighbor (at a premium)?

Zahnrad Kopf · Feb 12, 2012

Myrmidon said:
I know of one company in the milwaukee area that has about 5 plants (all small 20 to 30k square feet buildings) in a 5 block radius of the original building.

There's more than a few, actually.

Myrmidon · Feb 12, 2012

Yeh i suppose your right, but I didn't have my thinking cap on.

Its still less then optimal IMO, I would just bite the bullet and move to a bigger locale personally.

Get some real crane capacity over that floor mill with twin hooks and room for expansion gives you the ability to do work you may not be able to now. It will make you money sooner then later, especially if you do some planning on how to fix workflow issues you probably have.

TurboFabSupply · Feb 12, 2012

I know of two shops who seems to be successfully doing that. Setting up machining cells and carefully planning which machines go in which location seems to be imperative.

bryan_machine · Feb 12, 2012

The Janicki complex in Sedro-Woolley has 4 major buildings which bing maps show cover a span of about 1000 feet.

But they are on one lot, and so moving things between them wouldn't involve driving around on city streets.

smallshop · Feb 17, 2012

We had the fab building 18 blocks from the main building at one company we worked at. We didn't do any fab at the main building but still had to make routine sweeps for tools, etc. :rolleyes5:

You will lose a certain amount of efficiency and will increase your tooling costs.....if you have sense enough to factor the cost of all the time wasted going back and forth to "share" tools.

the first time you are on a job that is late and have to make three trips to get something you need...... :angry:

You will ask, " Why did we ever do this!!??"

It also becomes easier for employees to develop an "us" versus "them" attitude between the different depts..

Ries · Feb 17, 2012

bryan_machine said:
The Janicki complex in Sedro-Woolley has 4 major buildings which bing maps show cover a span of about 1000 feet.

But they are on one lot, and so moving things between them wouldn't involve driving around on city streets.

Actually, Janicki also has another big building up in Hamilton, which is something like ten miles away.
154,000 sq ft in one shop, 210,000 sq ft in the other.

I am guessing they try not to move things back and forth too much.

Mr Bridgeport · Feb 17, 2012

Hi Jay. I've been to your shop several times and know how it's laid out. Can you get an old industrial building with crane service, something that used to be a shop? It will have the electrical service and material handleing capabilities you will need in the future. Figure out a master plan, a way to slowly relocate all your equipment over say a 5 year period. It's gonna be tough until you get it all under one roof again. I hate to mention Camden, but I bet there are some screaming deals to be had. Issue an AK47 to all your employees except any you want to get rid of. Take care, call me if you want to bounce some ideas around.
Bill

JB @ C and L Machine · Feb 17, 2012

Well I might of spoke to soon, we have a good chance of expanding! It's going to be a long hard journey but I hope it's worth it. It would involve building over our old building and expanding beyond!

1 - company , 2 buildings less than a mile apart

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