Employees dictating when they will work.
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  1. #1
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    Default Employees dictating when they will work.

    I've been in steel fabricating, erecting and conveyors for 29 years, I just lost a good employee of 14 years ( He went to work for himself ),
    my 2nd good guy left for $ 25.00 hr with retirement.

    So in desperation I had to hire 2 new guys that are skilled trade guys from the Auto plants that are used to making a $ 100,000.00 a year...
    They also told me they won't be working through the Christmas holidays, I told them ( You gotta do, what you gotta do. ) They got Saturday, Sunday and Monday off and would have gotten the same off for the new year.

    Am I being a scrooge, as far as I'm concerned, they will get there pay checks on Tuesday after the new year and have the rest of 2018 off as well.

    One would think that a 40 year old man with a family would care more about a $ 50,000.00 a year job with medical benefits.

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    Just curious, what were you paying them?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gobo View Post
    Just curious, what were you paying them?
    The way I read it, 50,000 Including medical. How much can they "make" on the dole + cash work? That is what you are competing against.

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    If a new employee tells me they simply aren't coming in for four days when scheduled to work, they are gone. Pay is irrelevant. It's one thing if they ask for it or let me know ahead of time that they had a trip planned and they can't make it. But work's gotta get done. If they don't want to do it, I will find someone else that wants to.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post

    So in desperation I had to hire 2 new guys that are skilled trade guys from the Auto plants that are used to making a $ 100,000.00 a year...
    Hello Portable Welder
    Say no more.
    Nip it in the bud, now!!! They forgot whose working for who. Soon they'll be expecting you to wipe their bums for them (they're used to that).

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    The one guy has been with me a month and has refused to work 2 other times for Saturday work, the 2nd guy started last week.
    I started both of them at $ 20.00 hr, plus over time.

    Keep in mind, the one guy wont buy a helmet ( Kind of tells me he doesn't plan on staying in this business. )

    The guy that has been working for a month had a grinder kick back on him and the body hit him in the face so he had to have 12 stitches, this required 4 days off... the cut was maybe 3/4" long. ( Me, I would have came back to work immediately )

    So the million dollar question !!!!!, will they get unemployment because I fired them for not showing up.

  10. #7
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    if they want to choose when to work then you get to choose when to use them.
    as far as unemployment goes - probably.... it doesn't seem to be as hard to get as it was when i was on it (1980's).

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    I'm not going to go to bat for these guys 100%... but some people like to have a life outside of work. Nobody is going to care as much or work as hard as you are. Also you had two great guys leave, that wasn't for no reason.

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    I would blame it on Abraham Lincoln. Why did he have to abolish slavery?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    ... They got Saturday, Sunday and Monday off and would have gotten the same off for the new year.
    Wow, they were going to get Saturday, Sunday, AND Christmas Day off this week? Unpaid I assume? And they get to make $40,000/yr.? ($20/hr.= $40,000/yr. unless you work OT) Those unappreciative bastards! Do you also need us to explain why the other two guys left?

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    The way I read it is ;-
    They're ex big corp union workers, used to being molly coddled and ''overpaid'' with a ''you need us more than we need you'' attitude ......(and IME bone bloody idle as well )

    I take it you're a much smaller outfit, with a completely different ethos, .......and again IME the two never mix, ....the ex big corps union types never quite grasp how the rest of u live and work.

    You wrote Am I being a scrooge, as far as I'm concerned, they will get there pay checks on Tuesday after the new year and have the rest of 2018 off as well.

    No you are not being a scrooge, and that would be my course of action. Okay, it might end up costing me one way or another (I don't know your labour laws) ........but I ''know'' it would end up costing me more if I kept them.

    An aside.

    Back in the early 70's I worked part time casual around the job shops - evenings and weekends on top of my ''day job'' ........and found a great guy - Big Jim, .......a no nonsense, straight talking Yorkshireman, what I call a proper boss, he was firm but fair, and a reasonable man, ......but at the end of the day, what he said went - and he didn't give a monkey's how you felt about it!

    One Saturday morning, one of his full times guys wasn't going to do what he'd been asked - it was a bit of a shitty job, but that's life, he thought it beneath him, and told Big Jim as much.

    Big Jim let him vent, then took him outside and pointing to the sign on the front of the shop asked quite matter of factly ''What's it say up there lad?''
    Guy frowned ''JS Engineering''

    ''Aye lad, and what's it say underneath - in brackets?'' guy frowned ''Proprieter J Smith''

    Big Jim nodded thoughtfully then said sternly ''Aye lad, when it's your name up there, and on the bank overdraft, you can tell me what you will and won't do, ...........but until that day comes lad, that's my bloody privilege !''
    Last edited by Limy Sami; 12-26-2017 at 02:17 PM. Reason: ytop

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    I've been in steel fabricating, erecting and conveyors for 29 years, I just lost a good employee of 14 years ( He went to work for himself ),
    my 2nd good guy left for $ 25.00 hr with retirement.

    So in desperation I had to hire 2 new guys that are skilled trade guys from the Auto plants that are used to making a $ 100,000.00 a year...
    They also told me they won't be working through the Christmas holidays, I told them ( You gotta do, what you gotta do. ) They got Saturday, Sunday and Monday off and would have gotten the same off for the new year.

    Am I being a scrooge, as far as I'm concerned, they will get there pay checks on Tuesday after the new year and have the rest of 2018 off as well.

    One would think that a 40 year old man with a family would care more about a $ 50,000.00 a year job with medical benefits.
    It's when I read posts like that I realize how different the USA is from most of Europe.

    People in my country work just enough to enjoy their free time. Ask your kids. A 37 hour work week is standard and all have a paid 5 week annual vacation time + sick pay etc., etc.
    Healthcare is tax financed so that has nothing to do with employers.

    Working culture in Denmark | Workindenmark

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    So the million dollar question !!!!!, will they get unemployment because I fired them for not showing up.
    I don't know MI UC laws, I think they might be tougher then here because of the union presence. PA's are pretty tough, but one of the only surefire ways to deny a claimant UC benefits is if he refuses to work the hours he's assigned, So I'd suspect you are in the clear. Even if they do manage to get benefits, your share will be surely very small, since their time with you is miniscule.

    IME Sami has it spot on. Guys full of entitlement like that will never fit into your operation. I've tried and failed miserably at that also.

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    Keep them or let them go you've still got issues.

    If you keep them it needs to be made much more clear what your expectations are in terms of holiday leave, vacations, OT and extra hours in general, and personally supplied/employer supplied work gear. If you let them go you'll avoid alot of grief if you make this clear in the next set of interviews you'll need to conduct. We're a busy shop, extra hours are pretty standard, we take stat holidays only, vacation is 2 weeks with 5 notice. Take 30 minutes to write it down, it's worth the investment of your time and hopefully keeps you from having to get on the hiring tread mill.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke View Post
    It's when I read posts like that I realize how different the USA is from most of Europe.

    People in my country work just enough to enjoy their free time. Ask your kids. A 37 hour work week is standard and all have a paid 5 week annual vacation time + sick pay etc., etc.
    Healthcare is tax financed so that has nothing to do with employers.
    While all true, in countries like Europe and here in Australia it is not sustainable long term. We even rely on exploitation of an underclass in another country to allow our countries to survive.

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    I think there's problems on both sides here, but the reason I'd get rid of the two guys is a lack of common sense. For the one guy to cut himself with a grinder, and have one say he's not buying a helmet, tells me they're not cut out for this work.

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    "It's when I read posts like that I realize how different the USA is from most of Europe.

    People in my country work just enough to enjoy their free time. Ask your kids. A 37 hour work week is standard and all have a paid 5 week annual vacation time + sick pay etc., etc.
    Healthcare is tax financed so that has nothing to do with employers."

    Gordon, you really can't help yourself, can you? With all due respect, and I actually do enjoy some of your posts and threads....

    Do Not derail this thread into another political shit show !!!

    Brian

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    Quote Originally Posted by Portable Welder View Post
    I've been in steel fabricating, erecting and conveyors for 29 years, I just lost a good employee of 14 years ( He went to work for himself ),
    my 2nd good guy left for $ 25.00 hr with retirement.

    So in desperation I had to hire 2 new guys that are skilled trade guys from the Auto plants that are used to making a $ 100,000.00 a year...
    They also told me they won't be working through the Christmas holidays, I told them ( You gotta do, what you gotta do. ) They got Saturday, Sunday and Monday off and would have gotten the same off for the new year.

    Am I being a scrooge, as far as I'm concerned, they will get there pay checks on Tuesday after the new year and have the rest of 2018 off as well.

    One would think that a 40 year old man with a family would care more about a $ 50,000.00 a year job with medical benefits.
    .
    .
    not union and with overtime and benefits i make easily over $75,000.yr
    .
    everything is relative. you got 10 workers and you reward those who do what you ask by pay raises and paying 1.5 pay for overtime work remembering every body gets at least 2 weeks (10 days) off plus 10 more days paid holiday pay.
    .
    if 5 out of 10 workers do more what you ask maybe not everything you pay them more and the 5 giving you a hard time you dont reward them for it

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    Hi PW

    I have to say I'd be going along with most here! ... Who's the boss / employer - YOU!

    ... you need to make that very clear and if they can't accept that then show them the door. IMHO there is too much of this dictating now.

    I know you may be short of two welder in the short term but you don't need folk like that and if you give in now you'll leave yourself open to future demands.

    Just my two pennies worth

    John

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    See if you can find 2-3 "legal" mexicans to replace them, I know of 2 companies who won't hire anyone else anymore.
    It's hard to find people who will put in 30hrs in a 40hr week, let alone do over time.

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