Is it time to hire a shop manager / working supervisor?

I am looking for some advice or opinions here on whether it is time to hire a full time shop manager or working supervisor. We are a small company with under 20 people and it seems like a good amount of the day is spent answering questions and the same questions over again. We have a decent system and detailed paperwork on our jobs but there seems to still be that question once in a while or machine issues etc. We have one guy on the shop floor now that tried to fill the shoes of a role like this but the crew didn't give him the respect he deserved since they all worked together before and it was a hard thing for him and he wanted to go back to doing what he does best. Sales and vendors fill a really good portion of my day now and when there is an issue it seems to be when I am on the phone with someone so it ties things up a bit and I rush the conversation or the employee waits a while to get the answer or situation resolved.

I guess what I am asking is for those of you that have taken the plunge and made this significant investment into a manager / supervisor did it work out for you? What were some goals you set for the supervisor? Did you hire a non floor working manager or did you hire a working supervisor and have them operate a machine of oversee Q&A etc? Did it relieve some pressure off you as an owner or give you a little more patience with your employees?

If you are the owner/manager of a 20 man operation and are still acting as the machine shop foreman, both your business and your machine shop are suffering from lack of proper attention.

You have a general description of tasks already. Rather than define strict requirements now, look for the right person who can work well with your current employees and keep the shop running. Then tailor the job to a combination of this person's abilities and the necessary tasks at hand.

Very rough rule of thumb with this sort of thing is if 1/3 rd to 1/2 of boss mans time can be devolved into a sensible role for another person its time to hire. Accept that new guy will initially only be around half as effective as you would have been. When you have grown up in a role there is a ton of stuff you have learnt on the way that new guy won't know. Flip side is that when you get stretched thin a lot of stuff doesn't get the attention it needs,running pretty much on how it always was. Bad for a business because over the years you get out of date. Let that go too long and you are flirting with death spiral.

Another rule of thumb is that normal routine management should not be booked for more than 2/3 rds of your time. Some of that "spare" 1/3 rd gets eaten by things that happen and need higher level intervention but you must have significant unbooked time to think about whats going on and where you are going.

Sounds like you may need to hire two. If you can't afford one your business is dead. Still flopping around 'cos its not sunk in yet but it hasn't got a future.

Clive.

guys this is the story in short:
how would you manage people acting more and more reckless (putting bad parts with good parts, putting tools where they dont belong, mixing stuff with other stuff which it does not belong etc) in a small shop environment (8-10 people)?

the problem is:
1) the owner of the shop has got no time to mess around with all those small or little less small problems (mixing good and bad parts).

2) the second hand man has got a little time because he's busy trying to make parts move and machines on the go all day long.

there has to be some kind of system which will make all the rest of the people (like 6-8 men for now) to behave and act in order.

I just can't think of it now, because, when I think of cutting of salaries I only think it will make things worse as men will start hiding their mistakes even more and I think more and more bad parts will be sent to customers.

We've tried to call for common sense, currently there are no real repercussions for men when they make mistakes like that, other than verbal conflict.

The results are weak or non existing or in some cases not lasting.

We can't hire 3 new people just to go after our employees and control every part they have made, we've developed a system in which employees control other employees but that sometimes works sometimes they see mistakes and won't react because they see that as an excuse to continue working wrong just because they did not set up those parts to be produced with an error, someone else did...

What is a best way not to go broke by hiring a new employees, not to cut salaries on mistakes of former employees, and to get parts which are only right and correct?

People just sometimes don't care about that, they don't realize or just don't care that if we as a company produce and ship incorrect parts, everybodys suffers.

Allen, a quick response. First, I would recommend starting a new thread - even though there are connections to the older thread, there are also significant differences, and you may well get confusing answers as people respond to the OP rather than to you.

Second, we need to know more about your situation - in particular, are you the owner? Your description makes me think you might not be, in which case your ability to affect this is severely limited. But if you are the owner ... then a different set of advice will follow, most of which will basically boil down to, take charge or give up. But "the devil is in the details" - perhaps your questions is how to take charge in ways that are firm, consistent, and appropriate, rather than tyrannical, inconsistent, and self-defeating. Hard to know until we get more info ...

I am not sure how you square this question. "we've developed a system in which employees control other employees."

Clearly not. The problem with peer-level management is that it leaves the culture to free float where ever it wants, as you are finding. One lazy or sloppy guy spoils the whole idea.

In a nutshell, you want quality control but you don't want to pay for inspectors? Do you have the capital to add automatic systems? You'd still need an inspector, but you'd need one rather than three or four.

If you have one bad actor, man up and fire them. It's amazing how fast people will stop working hard if they see that not working hard is a viable option. Nobody wants to be that one hard-working chump everyone else freeloads off of.