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rollmaker

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I know there is shortage of machinists, but I am finding the shortage extremely severe. In the past year went through 3 different people. Different ages and of different experience levels. One so called experienced individual couldn't read a blueprint and build parts on a Bridgeport.
A youngster was not able to make the simplest decisions and really needed a job in a production environment. We are a short run shop. The last individual had some precision manufacturing experience but no true machining experience. After four months, with expensive training he comes in on a Monday morning and quits. His reason, he is scared of the machines. Unbelievable. I pay a competitive wage based on experience and skill with end of year bonus based on the shop's performance for the year. I need additional help, and am getting personally burned out with the lack of help. Where are you finding people that want to be machinist's.
 
Pay more.

Labour is a market and its price is set by supply and demand. Everybody thinks they're paying competitively but if you can';t fill the positions with quality people, its hint you may not be.

Supply is low (you in the US have virtually no unemployment) Demand seems pretty good so things move up the price curve. The US' real labour rate has been going up....if it was me I'd jump ahead of it. Pay $5/h more and see what happens. A few bucks an hour for skill that shows up will look like a bargain compared to what you've been getting. In a market, largely you get what you pay for and trying to save money and getting crap people ({like your applicants) costs more end of the day
 
They do not train in most schools anymore so the pool is small.

You may need to seek out community college or tech schools to see if there are any courses that train to the skills you need then open possibilities of interns or ???

Our HS auto shop had a tour of an engine rebuilding shop and there was a stack of applications at the end...worked there for 6 months...

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I337Z using Tapatalk
 
Hello rollmaker,
I understand your situation quite well. What I can tell you with confidence is that you will find someone eventually, unfortunately it may take a recession to land "the" quality applicant. My theory is that paying more money for them will get you nowhere. Hold your powder, let your competitors drain their reserves.
What all good machinist want more than anything else is STABILITY, period.
otrlt

this brings up a interesting question and it would be nearly impossible to quantify, but how many true journeyman level machinist are out there?
 
Is there a shortage of machinists or a shortage of machinist that will work for 15$/hr? One creates and exacerbates the other.
 
Where are you finding people that want to be machinist's.

Probably not in the Pennsylvania "slate belt".

Nice enough area, but how many youngsters simply beat-feet for elsewhere soon as they can do?

What has that been leaving as "input", locally, to learn and grow, over time?
 
Is there a shortage of machinists or a shortage of machinist that will work for 15$/hr? One creates and exacerbates the other.

To the point! Rollmaker, why don't you tell us what you were paying for these three people, that would give some clarity as to whether it's a machinist shortage, or a "dollar" shortage...
 
Pay more.

Labour is a market and its price is set by supply and demand. Everybody thinks they're paying competitively but if you can';t fill the positions with quality people, its hint you may not be.

Supply is low (you in the US have virtually no unemployment) Demand seems pretty good so things move up the price curve. The US' real labour rate has been going up....if it was me I'd jump ahead of it. Pay $5/h more and see what happens. A few bucks an hour for skill that shows up will look like a bargain compared to what you've been getting. In a market, largely you get what you pay for and trying to save money and getting crap people ({like your applicants) costs more end of the day

This article would suggest we have a lot of under employment...... Get Able-Bodied Americans off the Couch - WSJ

or this..... Meet the out-of-work
 
There are two kinds of labor shortages.

1. Not paying enough. You run a gas station and need a cashier - raise the rate of pay and somebody will show up.

2. An actual shortage of people who can and will do the job - you are in a tournament (bidding war) with other businesses to get those people.

Note that #2 applies to business and places you would not dream of having such a problem. Amazon. Google. Microsoft. (The summer interns at the tech companies are now getting $8K per month....)

If you business won't support a wage high enough to attract and retain the class of people you need, you shoud find a new business soon....
 
In northern Jersey there are a lot of production jobs but not a lot of actual machinist jobs...it's even harder to find machinists for the machinist jobs, most applicants have pushed a button for a few months and think they can play machinist. Most of the time the wages are there, figure 24-30 an hour based on experience...these days I wouldn't go for under 29.

I've seen some working interviews...funny, I failed one miserably years ago...had to do with indicating pump impellers in a lathe. Had never done it before...took like 45 minutes lol. Needless to say I didn't get a call back. I'd rather fail trying than fail because of what I didn't say.

I had to take my knocks learning, left a good job in 2010 to be a CNC operator with only Bridgeport and manual lathe experience, no dro either...lasted 2 months till I was laid off. Been at a few places since then, put myself through g code and masterCAM classes after the first layoff, steadily increased my knowledge and value at each company. That was my schooling, unfortunately most don't have the spine to take repeated layoffs and job changes to make it nowadays.

A good friend who was a tool maker/engineer at Weiss Aug for over 40 years said if you want to be valuable work at 5 different companies in different industries for about a year each, learn as much as you can at each. Then you can apply at companies that will pay, like medical and aerospace...7 years and 6 companies later I'm a tool and die maker at a medical implant manufacturer. Sure I started as an EDM operator, but I started 5 bucks an hour more than most of the established operators, I was head hunted and drove a hard bargain, of course I kept up my end of the bargain :)

I tell all of the younger guys, make yourself valuable don't just be a body. Too many times I see people that won't do something extra, guy I work with bitches about no overtime, I offered to teach him to operate the vmc's and turning center but he refused and said I don't operate those things...I get tons of OT including double time...he gets 0. He's in his 50s I'm in my 30s, age has nothing to do with it, it's just pride and drive.
 
This article would suggest we have a lot of under employment...... Get Able-Bodied Americans off the Couch - WSJ

or this..... Meet the out-of-work

agreed, however the participation rate, while the basis of another interesting discussion, is a different metric than the unemployment rate which is what affects the OP. Part time/full time ratio has been on a steady down trend since after the 2008 spike,

I have trouble with this as well, guys I want to come to work (pay at low to mid 20's/h), wont as they'd rather sit the summer out on unemployment. Some of the participation rate drop is just life - people retired, in school longer etc but a heck of lot seems like its too cushy a safety net. I see it literally pushing people out of the labour which is a very bad thing for our economies. Its like a external factor sucking labour out of the market before the market gets to the OP......a bad thing but not much OP can do about it except maybe increasing pay will pull some back into the market. As employers, those out of the market on the dole might really bother us, but the metric on how hard it is to hire is the unemployment rate.
 
guys I want to come to work (pay at low to mid 20's/h), wont as they'd rather sit the summer out on unemployment. Some of the participation rate drop is just life - people retired, in school longer etc but a heck of lot seems like its too cushy a safety net. I see it literally pushing people out of the labour which is a very bad thing for our economies. Its like a external factor sucking labour out of the market before the market gets to ..

..any employer.

I have NO idea what unemployment or longer term "dole" pays, UK, US, or Canada, and it probably varies by Province as it does South 48 by State, may be standardized UK wide. Or not. Many of us HERE have never once been on it, so... expertise has to come from elsewhere.

Let's take an easier metric. US Social Security. Max benefit one can earn is a figure published each year.

If we take 70% of $2,639/month max Social Security, 2016, leaving $1,847, AKA 22K+/yr or $10.66/hr... less than minimum wage, many jurisdictions ..and take a SWAG that some form of "dole" is comparable?

How does that compare with take-home pay for a person in-work?

'Coz there are damned few deductions from SS or dole, compared to those for an active worker, and "take home" is not even 100% available, even so.

The "spread" is indeed too narrow, and for far too many folks to be healthy.

And.. to a large extent, it is about the DEDUCTIONS that even lesser paid staff have to carry. We cannot fix that. Not soon. Not easily. Maybe never. The trend has always been WORSE, not better.

If an employer is to improve his chances of attracting what is needed, one has to start thinking in terms of typical take-home pay at the employee's end. That - is your "real" offer.

Local cost of living, "quality of life"? Try those if you have a major advantage, but do not expect it to matter to the folks who are hardest to find. Executives plan at that level, hourly less-so. Individual and family lifestyles count for more, and you cannot even "see" those.

And think, of course, of fully-BURDENED costs at your own end.

Tough nut to crack.
 
I don't know the pay scale you offer, but I would post some want ad's in the Erie, area.

Do you pay enough for someone here, to relocate to your location ?

Erie, and Meadville have "extra capacity" right now as far as machinist.
 
If you don't mind doing some training, I'd look at prisons and maybe some "help-you" programs. Some of those guys do not want to go back, and they'll stick to it if given a chance.

But you have to be on your game when interviewing :)
 
I know there is shortage of machinists, but I am finding the shortage extremely severe. In the past year went through 3 different people. Different ages and of different experience levels. One so called experienced individual couldn't read a blueprint and build parts on a Bridgeport.
A youngster was not able to make the simplest decisions and really needed a job in a production environment. We are a short run shop. The last individual had some precision manufacturing experience but no true machining experience. After four months, with expensive training he comes in on a Monday morning and quits. His reason, he is scared of the machines. Unbelievable. I pay a competitive wage based on experience and skill with end of year bonus based on the shop's performance for the year. I need additional help, and am getting personally burned out with the lack of help. Where are you finding people that want to be machinist's.
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before i got laid off i went to night school for cnc classes at a local community college. they had a bulletin board or web site with job postings for students looking for work. usually if you call college and talk to teacher he can help you find people.
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always pay is based of if people can stay or find a higher paying job elsewhere. how long people stay is based on pay in my 37 years experience. i get new job i never stop looking for another job until my current jobs pay is higher than average and not worth looking else where. most pay raises i got were not so much what i did as too many others were leaving jobs to work elsewhere and employer raised pay to keep people.
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sure some people leave job cause not happy or some other reason. always some people never happy. those types never going to be fully happy. just look for other people.
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by he way i started job at $20/hr working as full time cnc operator when all i had was maintenance machinist (millwright)experience with limited experience making parts in a machine shop. my employer took a chance on me and gave me a few months training on mazak mill and i never used a mazak before. they had trouble finding people who could pass drug test. i was 50 years old at the time. so they took chance on hiring old guy with little experience who would need training too AND paid $20/hr
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5 years later i make $22.71/hr and made $75,000 with overtime and benefits last year. you think you pay competitive or pay dont matter but then complain you cannot find people. i was looking for job 3 weeks til i got job offer. i got 2 calls weeks after finding job from other places that weeks later give me a call about a job maybe cause they could not find better. 2 other places i had to say i already got a job. thanks for no thanks for call weeks later about job.
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i also have gotten walked out of job interview cause they finally read resume and my experience is not enough or i cannot answer gcode questions fast enough at interview. even though in less than a hour i could then answer gcode questions 10x faster. some places are always looking for good people. the reasons are plain to see why if they are honest with themselves
 
If you don't mind doing some training, I'd look at prisons and maybe some "help-you" programs. Some of those guys do not want to go back, and they'll stick to it if given a chance.

But you have to be on your game when interviewing :)

I would quit if the boss started doing this.....
 
a lot of little shops boss does some strange things. like being a type of dictator the boss power goes to their head.
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and they often think they are doing perfectly normal things too
 
many shops that pay more than average dont advertise it. you might think average pay is $18/hr but you might be surrounded by other machine shops paying more and the other machines shops are not admitting they pay more
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also some shops pay $20/hr AND 6% 401K match so really pay is $21.20/hr and if over time at 1.5X is normal AND every week then really average pay / hr is higher.
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like i said if a employee getting $75,000 yr pay at a company and your employees are making $36,000 yr obviously many will leave your job once they learn of other company paying more
 
Another thing to consider is how you're advertising these jobs. I still see the occasional company that only advertises via a help wanted sign in the window, or the one company owner I know who complains he can't find good people and when I asked where he advertises his openings, he said (paraphrasing) "I don't post the jobs on any of the job search websites, then I'd have to look through lots of resumes."

Which job search sites are popular varies from region to region; find out what people use and post ads there. Also, the community colleges are good resources, as someone pointed out above.
 








 
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