Starting Up Solo

Hello! I'm 23, Located in England and have been a machinist for the last 7 years (Time served on manual lathes+mills)

I am currently in the process of starting up my own solo venture from my garage, I've got a few contracts to get me going and most of my work will be getting done on my Tormach 1100 (You have to start somewhere) and I am on the lookout for a decent lathe with a DRO.
At a later date I will be looking to get ISO9001 and get some oil and gas contracts to keep me ticking over. I am not looking to make mega bucks.. but just be my own boss and not depend on others.

All I am looking for really is the Pro's/con's and pitfalls I may run in to.

just be my own boss and not depend on others.

Most of us here have been on both sides of the fence, and you will find that when you move to the other side, you will still be dealing with "others". The difference is that they pay directly, rather than deferred through the "boss".
Be sure that you understand that they are the same.

Lee (the saw guy)

I can only say one thing and that's a word of caution in regards to the ISO9001, or any other QMS for that matter. Getting actually certified is a huge effort in terms of time and expense, especially if you want to do it "correctly" (not just pay to have a certificate). When you spread that burden over a larger company, it's less painful (especially in terms of how much business is needed per person to get the return). About the only favorable part for a one-person company (or let's say up to 10), is that it should become easier to define and write procedures and associated forms because there are "fewer people doing it fewer ways" and, in the case of a start-up, you can do this all at the same time (i.e. not after 10 years of everyone doing it differently).

Okay, so one other thing. IMO, there are two good ways for one-person shops to make money. First good way is doing one-offs/prototypes, etc. especially where you can get away with time and materials (either that or be damn good at quoting). The other way is to have 3-4 machines, all of which can run relatively unattended (i.e. operator loads/unloads and then goes to another machine). Here you want lots of long runners. I have seen examples of both be at least decent money-makers. Biggest drawback to #1 is where all of a sudden you're out of work. You better be disciplined for the "unpaid time off". Biggest drawback to #2 is how the heck do you ever take a vacation or what do you do when you're laid up. You better have some good back up plans.

If you're talking a one-person shop with a mix of one-offs, production, etc., it can get awfully difficult to manage all the quoting, production, ordering, deliveries, billing, etc. Better have a wife who likes to work for free! Not saying it can't be done, just takes a lot of juggling. Doing one-offs you can actually bill for that time. Doing a few long run jobs that time becomes less of a factor (spread out over lots of work) or you can hire it out economically (i.e. hire a delivery person, part time bookkeeper, etc.).

Good luck, the world needs more entrepreneurs!
The Dude

Jims Machining said:

"I am not looking to make mega bucks"...

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That's a good expectation, 'cuz you won't most likely.

Jims Machining said:

"but just be my own boss and not depend on others."

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Get your head out of the clouds there!! Every customer is/will be your boss. Don't believe me? You'll see. You will find yourself depending on far more than you realize. Banks are going to f@$k you up, Postal service will f@$k you up, parcel service will f@$k you up, vendors will f@$k you up. Bottom line is you WILL be at the mercy of everyone you deal with and even the weather. Hell, you will even f@$k you up!! And, that's not meant to be a slam against you either.

The Dude makes some good points, however.

Just a word about IS0 9001. In my experience, the biggest problem existing companies face, is that people and/or company policies, once they're established are extremely hard to change. You'll get the old "Why do we have to do this a new way, we've always done it the old way" I've seen this happen several times lately, where a company goes to all the time, trouble, and expense to get certified. The second the auditor walks out the door, everybody goes back to their old habits, and then they get their cert yanked on their first surveillance audit. Set things up right from day one. You'll need a good quality consultant, no way to weed through all the horseshit by yourself. Good luck

I would say this.

If you really enjoy machining and have a strong work ethic, go for it. You will be overwhelmed in the beginning, but drive hard and you will overcome the hurdles.

Don't let anyone tell you it can't be done, it can.

Don't let miserable guys who failed at it talk you out of your dream.

If your good at what you do, whatever it may be, your services will be in demand. And guess what, people are usually good at the things they truly enjoy doing.

One last thing. You will be your own boss. You have a choice to not take work you don't want, or to turn away problem customers. I have fired customers, one fairly recently.

FYI good luck with the oil and gas crowd :-) Personally i prefer less demanding customers that are a bit more steady. Equally your going to need more than a tormach to stay in with that crowd!

We have that iso-9001 and OHSAS 18001 we made plenty of money for 10 years without them. As for oil and gas work every ones looking that along with aerospace, we go to most of the trade shows trying to get customers in them sectors, they more or less roll there eyes and shake there head another sub contact machine shop FML. Good work comes from strange places and might not be something you ever heard of before, I think you would do better with a product and manufacturer it for sale.

By far the most important thing to have is good contacts ,that is really the only way to get good work that fits the equipment you have ,it is not too difficult to pick up onesy twosy type work at rock bottom prices but getting those lucrative contracts that you really need to make a living is not going to be easy ,unless you know the right people or strike lucky with someone who is having problems getting something made .Also watch out for the guy who will give you a pile of work that he doesn't intend to pay for.

If you get plenty of work it takes your life over doing it ,if work dries up you spend the time worrying where the next job is coming from.

Regarding the ISO thing ,perhaps others will disagree but I would say it's just not possible in a one man shop ,to do it properly you would need to be pretty much full time doing the QA part and wouldn't have time to do the work .On the other hand you may get under the wing of an accredited shop and conform to certain aspects of the standard to be able to work for them.

Don't think that being self employed means you can have a day off when you want, customers will have other ideas.

The good points are that it is nice to build up your own shop and have a collection of machines that you can call your own (unless you are making payments on them).

Good luck ,you will need it.

Make a product, you dont have the firepower to compete with any job shop. Dont even waste your time trying to bid contracts with a tormach, I have given small light work to a guy with a tormach and his machine was not able to handle any serious work. You will struggle to make 20 bucks an hour and you will beat your machine to death. Make product and sell it yourself.

I think you should keep your day job, assuming you have one, and build up your shop with capable machines.
Any shop needs a certain amount of diversity. Finding work that will only fit your Tormach will be a challenge.
Get yourself a knee mill at least the size of a Bridgeport and a 13 x 40 or larger geared head lathe. I have both manual and CNC machines in my one man garage shop. I use all of them, probably the manual machines
more.

If you have a day job,,,,don't tell anyone you are setting up your own shop, not even close friends. That information is let out on a need to know basis. Only talk about your shop when there is a chance you can smoke out a job. I had my shop for almost 5 years before my boss & co-workers found out about it. By then it didn't matter if I got fired over it.
Jim

JimGlass said:

I think you should keep your day job, assuming you have one, and build up your shop with capable machines.
Any shop needs a certain amount of diversity. Finding work that will only fit your Tormach will be a challenge.
Get yourself a knee mill at least the size of a Bridgeport and a 13 x 40 or larger geared head lathe. I have both manual and CNC machines in my one man garage shop. I use all of them, probably the manual machines
more.

If you have a day job,,,,don't tell anyone you are setting up your own shop, not even close friends. That information is let out on a need to know basis. Only talk about your shop when there is a chance you can smoke out a job. I had my shop for almost 5 years before my boss & co-workers found out about it. By then it didn't matter if I got fired over it.
Jim

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I found that what worked for me was to buy a 3 axis knee mill (Series2) to produce the work. Yes, like Jim, I did have a standard knee and lathe also, but the cnc was the money maker for me with the manuals doing either second ops or other simple work while the cnc was chugging out parts. I also had another job so the biggest problem I found was finding time to sleep!

As far as ISO 9000...try for compliancy not registered you will find that where you will go nuts trying to get registered being compliant is possible for you and later think about registration. Pick and write just ones you need now like inspection sheets ect.

I wrote 40 'company documents' before we were done, not counting the manual. However, we do work for the defense industry so you may be good with less.

Thank you all for for your input!

As for the Day job I currently work for a aerospace/oil and gas sector sub contractor, I will be keeping this for as long as I can while putting all my spare time in to Building up the company.

as for the ISO9001 I feel if I take this up as soon as I can, and get into the habit of doing all the paperwork second nature it will be do able

Below a index of our documents, Maybe this will help. When we had our inspection these were the final areas/documents they ( The defense contractor quality people) looked for. ( Sorry it copied poorly but I'm sure you'll get the idea)

CGM Document Number, Document Template Title, Current Revision, Approved by, Notes

CGM-001 Quality And Procedures Manual 1/28/14 S. Clark
CGM-002 Visitor Log sign-in sheet 5/20/13 S. Clark
CGM-003 Supplier Evaluation Form 5/9/14 S. Clark
CGM-004 Record Retention Guide 5/24/13 S. Clark Under review see CGM-035
CGM-005 Quotation Form 5/24/13 J. Gwynne Under review 5/14
CGM-006 Quality Planning Checklist 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-007 Meeting Notes Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-008 Management Review Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-009 Corrective & Preventive Action Plan Form 5/24/13 S. Clark Review 5/14
CGM-010 Blank C of C 4/08/13 J. Gwynne
CGM-011 Application for Credit 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-012 Training Evaluation Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-013 Training Plan Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-014 Training Record Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-015 Registrar Evaluation Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-016 Employee Evaluation Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-017 Job Description Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-018 New Employee Checklist 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-019 Customer Complaint Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-020 Customer Survey Form 5/24/13 S. Clark
CGM-021 CGM Equipment & Maintenance Record 4/30/13 S. Clark
CGM-022 CGM Inspection Equipment, Calibration Record 5/15/13 S. Clark
CGM-023 CGM Documents and Forms Record 12/15/13 S. Clark
CGM-024 CGM Shop Router 04/30/14 S. Clark
CGM-025 CGM In Process Inspection Form 12/15/13 S. Clark
CGM-026 Special Tooling & Gage List 12/15/13 S. Clark
CGM-027 Process Control Procedure Form
CGM-028 Dimensional Inspection Report Form 12/1/13 J. Gwynne
CGM-029 Daily Machine Checklist 12/13/13 S. Clark Review 5/14
CGM-030 Machine Shop Approved users list 12/15/13 S. Clark
CGM-031 Non-conforming Materials Procedure 4/20/2014 S. Clark
CGM-032 Non-Conforming (MRB) Log 4/21/2014 S. Clark
CGM-033 Non-Conformance Report 4/27/2014 S. Clark
CGM-034 Receiving Inspection Procedure 4/26/2014 S. Clark
CGM-035 CGM Document Control Policy 4/30/2014 S. Clark
CGM-036 CGM Shipping Procedure and Policy 5/1/2014 S. Clark
CGM-037 CGM Work Staging Checklist 5/5/2014 S .Clark
CGM-038 Shop Router Process 5/6/2014 S. Clark
CGM-039 Inspection Equip. Man. Policy 5/7/2014 S. Clark
CGM-040 Vendor Qualification Audit 5/9/2014 S. Clark
CGM-041 Inspection Form Procedure 5/11/2014 J. Gwynne
CGM
CGM
CGM
CGM


‘To do task’ for this document…create on spreadsheet and “link” Documents a to current Document Template due date 5/15

Scadvice, thank you for that, it puts it in to perspective .

Jims Machining said:

Scadvice, thank you for that, it puts it in to perspective .

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The biggest points of challenge when writing all this stuff is to make them real. Examples...a shop router/traveler is a tool for you not your customer. Having said that, your customer is going to have some requirements he wants to see on that document. Our current one is in it's 5th rev. and one reason was it was drifting out of ease of use for us and was falling into the trap of task to make the vendor happy.

Here are the rest of the document I failed to list earlier.

CGM-003-Vendor and Suppliers Requirements Policy and Procedure
CGM-031 NonConformMatProc
CGM-034-Receivinginspectionprocedure
CGM-035-CGM DocumentControl Policy
CGM-036-CGM Shipping Procedureand pol
CGM-038 Shop Router Process
CGM-039-CGM InspectnEquipManPolicy
CGM-041 Inspection Form Procedure

These are 'procedural' documents they tell one how WE do things and refer to the forms to use.

BTW - We are compliant, not registered ISO. I suspect we are close enough to go through the registration but currently see no need. We have one customer who required ISO but waved it after a 'vendor qualification" visit.

I've had the notion that this ISO quality stuff is designed to ensure that a product your organization produces is right up to snuff, regardless of who worked on it. If it's just you working on it, then it seems like chasing your tail to create a system to ensure that you did what was required to make it right. Of course you did, but if it's not right, then you're the one responsible. There's no paper trail to cover your own ass with, when yours is the only ass there.

I was involved in implementing ISO 9001 at a company I worked at previously. About a quarter of the way through it we all (managers) began to realize the actual goal of attaining certification was to merely expand the customer base by one customer (Kenworth) to satisfy the GM/VP of sales. (Yep the GM and VP of Sales were one and the same.) About 3/4 of the way through we began to realize we wouldn't have the manpower to care for and feed this beast we were about to birth and saw that we could make this thing as loose as we wanted and STILL achieve certification. It was loose enough at certification we had room to enhance it over about a ten year stretch and still satisfy the 'annual improvement' requirement before it got out of hand. I can't recall his exact words, but after the registrar gave us his stamp of approval the GM said the hard part was over and from here on out it should be a cake walk. We all knew that properly implemented the work should just begin at that stage. About six months later the GM couldn't understand why the overall quality had tanked and remarked that achieving certification was the worst thing he could ever have done! Training and moral were to blame here as us young bucks were leading 25-30 year employees.

The point of this rambling is HuFlungDung makes an excellent point. If you're a one man band why double your work load with paperwork? Furthermore, who will be your counter parts in which the checks and balances will fall upon? If I remember the standard correctly you're gonna need someone other than you to verify and review your SOPs, QA reports, etc. You're gonna be playing checkers with yourself.

For instance, I was responsible for writing up certain calibration procedures for the manufacturing folks to follow and I was responsible for gathering the completed reports from those people, having them entered into a database, then passing them off to the QA lab for review and verification. It wasn't long until we figured out via troubleshooting those responsible for the calibration were merely pencil whipping it and handing in bogus data.

Don't get caught up in making busy work for yourself. Unless you're making chips, you aren't making the rent/equipment payments. In a job shop environment your gonna be busy enough documenting your setups, writing programs, building work holding devices and documenting those. Trust me, as you get started you WILL be thinking "I'll remember what that was for, no need for notes. I've gotta get this other job started because it's a hot rush." Then one day you'll find yourself digging through a pile of fixtures wondering what the hell they're all for and not the first one will be marked with a name, part number, etc.

ISO9001 can fix all that, but you've got to maintain your procedures and paper work which will easily require an employee once you get rolling. An employee that's NOT adding to the bottom line.

"Don't get caught up in making busy work for yourself."

That should be posted just above the computer you write any documents you are going to use. As a "one man show" if you do decide to be compliant you can throw out a bunch of the documents I listed as they do not apply.

I recall trying to write one process document (when I first started to trying to do this). I had a question about one point I was trying to make in that document, so I went back and reviewed the whole section in the Standards that I THOUGHT prompted me to write it in the first place. After reviewing the standards again I realized I had just wasted half a day trying to explain and justify a "busy work" and useless document. Into the trash it went...

After that I took a chance on buying a cheap ISO Manual format template ( a few hundred bucks)...plus procedures and other iso templates ( about 40 bucks). I don't recall who it was I got them from, just one of those on the internet. The benefit of doing this was it gave me examples to compare to what was described in the ISO Manual. I didn't have to guess what they were talking about anymore as I now had an example.

Just so you know... I rewrote almost all of the Manual and most of the other templates also. However, as I inferred, I now had a list and, at the least, some direction. A few doc's were not even used, as they did not apply to our current operations.

If you can handle alot of money coming in and going out and a shit ton of money into equipment in one of the most cut throat businesses in the world then yes go for it and find out why most older folks are burned out of machining. My advice is specialize dont go down the common road...leave that for the fools.