How to protect yourself from some of the common scams?

I sell some of my products through the online marketplaces, eBay, Etsy, Amazon, etc. I'm sure most of you are aware of a pretty common scam where the buyer reports the item as not working, or not what they received, then send you back an empty box. In most cases the buyer purchases the label and puts the weight of the shipment as what it should be, then just says the seller is lying when they claim the box arrived empty since the label shows a weight greater than an empty box. These marketplaces almost always side with the buyer if no proof can be shown that the package was in transit as an empty box.

I have a current situation that I believe the buyer is trying to do this to me. I made some metal table legs, which were purchased as a stock item, not a custom order, shipped them, then the buyer claimed they didn't receive what they ordered and sent me pictures of a product that I do not even make. The work order shows the proper item was made, and the security cameras show the proper item being packed. It's pretty strange if they did actually get those table legs, because I have no idea how they would have gotten into that box. Anyway, I agreed to refund the transaction if they returned the legs to me, and trying to stay away from the "shipping the box back empty" situation, I said I would supply the shipping label. Now UPS will automatically update the package size and weight in their system if the actual size/weight is MORE than what's stated on the label, but they don't usually update it if it's less. That's so they can bill you more if you underpaid for the label, but they don't like crediting you if you overpaid. So I left out the package dimensions from the label, which is not required, and marked the label as 1 lb and told the buyer UPS would automatically update the weight to the actual weight. Now the buyer is requesting an updated shipping label with the correct package dimensions and weight. I can't think of any reason why they would care if the label showed the correct weight other than they are going to try and ship me an empty box.

I've had some pretty good luck in the past with fair outcomes from these online marketplaces, I don't think they're as "always side with the buyer" as most people put them out to be. But I do know if it becomes a "he said she said" situation and there's insufficient proof on either side, they will always side with the buyer. So are there any ways I can prevent this kind of scam from happening to me again in the future? What kind of documentation should be kept, etc?

One of the things I thought odd was the buyer requesting the package dimensions. I've occasionally had problems with stuff I bought online and always sent it back in the same box. As long as I had a prepaid return label with a tracking number I never cared about the weight as you just drop it off.

Perhaps the buyer is as suspicious of you as you are of them. Sending pictures of a different item does seem fishy though. I suggest setting up a camera and videoing the opening of the box starting with a closeup of the label. Also, if it goes as badly as you think and you can't get satisfaction send a snail mail letter to the problem resolution team at the corporate headquarters of the marketplace company. I have had a few tricky cases solved that way. Rule # 1 is document EVERYTHING. Rule # 2 is state your case as succinctly as possible, including all the relevant facts but leaving out anything that is not necessary.

Since this is something you do regularly I would suggest keeping a log of everything related to each transaction. Whenever I buy anything from ebay or an independent seller on a commerce site I capture all of the seller's description including photos in case it proves to be not as described. As a seller you need to keep records of what you advertised and the timeline of all major milestones such as date purchased, date shipped, shipping and tracking information, and any communication between you and the buyer. It can be a bit of a PITA but when things go wrong all that info can win your case.

Just tell the guy outright that you want UPS to weigh the box and that this is how you're going to get that to happen. Might not even be a sure thing.

Econdron said:

...I made some metal table legs, which were purchased as a stock item, not a custom order, shipped them, then the buyer claimed they didn't receive what they ordered and sent me pictures of a product that I do not even make. The work order shows the proper item was made, and the security cameras show the proper item being packed. It's pretty strange if they did actually get those table legs, because I have no idea how they would have gotten into that box. Anyway, I agreed to refund the transaction if they returned the legs to me...

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How can you refund against a product you didn't make?

Sounds like the guy bought some cheapo legs- didn't like them- and is planning on sending them to you and keeping the ones you made.

Then go after you for not refunding his money when he sends you something you've never seen before, in the hope you will just eat it to protect your ebay reputation.

You can document what you made and shipped. I would report him to ebay as a scammer, and do not refund until get your product back in the same condition as it went out your door..

ebay and buyer have you by the balls, if you don't refund the money, ebay will. I sell a lot through ebay, it is getting worse and worse for sellers. I just sold a step pulley with a 1/2 inch bore. After buyer received it, he wanted his money back because he needed a 5/8 bore. It was listed with a 1/2 inch bore. And people wonder why I drink. Shessh. Bob

HuFlungDung said:

Just tell the guy outright that you want UPS to weigh the box and that this is how you're going to get that to happen. Might not even be a sure thing.

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when they steal one of our shipments off the dock in Puerto Rico, they replace it with logs and stones of the same weight.

I suppose ebay wants to be a retail outlet for new items and retailers expect shrinkage. Leaves us SOL. Maybe get a notary public to witness the box opening and sue ebay in a ground breaking case that changes all the rules? Please do....but I accept its not a very practical suggestion.

What these people are doing is fraud, and if ebay doesn't figure out how to stomp on them, the model unravels.....that is if even care about auctions anymore.

Ups will (at least yesterday when we had too much weight in the box) credit the account.

We were told that package drop off may not get updated but whenever it is checked it at a ups store they weigh it and it updates the record.

However you can control part of it.

Ups on their Web page under options allows delivery without signature and be certian this is never checked.

Second due to high amount of porch pirates you can remind your ups driver as well as getting it entered into their database that simple policy is in place..."no signature is non delivery PERIOD".

You always make the ups ticket and in that ticket you insert your email address and the senders.

You check off the options for notifications so any issues will cause an email to be sent to you.

Last part is to create a "RETURNS DEPARTMENT" and this is simply adding a line in the shipping under address 2.

All returns are to be sent there and if you only receive few items or are suspicious you open them when ups is there.

We have received short orders before and ups and other shipping companies are setup for this and they simply make a note in the document that the box was empty or full of rocks.

Having the shipper document that the box was not containing what was expected should allow you to fight claim as well as having clear documentation of fraud.

You take photos and other details.

You can decline the shipment and ups delivers it back to the sender...

If you do not receive the item then they cannot claim they sent it to you, just be certian the shopper records in the record exactly why rejected.

This should cause an email with report to be sent to you and the sender so you have a document to send to ebay and the sender realizes they cannot get you.

Your returns policy can be clearly described in the fine print area of your listing so everyone knows you will inspect every received item witnesses by shipper and any that not match what are expected will be rejected.

Reminds us to do same as we are thinking about going back to selling stuff on ebay...been 15 years or so.

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Table legs don't seem to be a 'scam friendly' item...meaning I wouldn't attribute it to malice like I might if it were a cell phone or Xbox.

You have the customer's contact info, a little internet digging might shed some light on this.

I am an eBay buyer, seldom seller. What about printing a picture with the item and sign it. Put on it Return With Product for return. If you can prove it was in it together with the item and then they send back the paper with a wrong item, wouldn't that help you in your battles. It would require more PITA for you, but less Advil later.

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There will be an occasional scam on eBay, for sure.

On thing that is important if you are a frequent seller and use PayPal for payments coming to you, is to make absolutely certain that the address of the buyer is registered with PayPal. Sometimes a buyer will be in another country, say Canada or the UK with a registered address in their country. For some reason, possibly to avoid customs by having the item shipped to a friend in the US, they will ask you to ship to another address here. If you do this, you will be out of luck if the buyer claims that he never received the shipment. You could lose your item and your payment since PayPal can refund to a buyer over your objection.

I've had people who are registered in Canada and Mexico ask me to ship to a US address. I won't do it for the reasons mentioned.

Bob-J-H said:

ebay and buyer have you by the balls, if you don't refund the money, ebay will. I sell a lot through ebay, it is getting worse and worse for sellers. I just sold a step pulley with a 1/2 inch bore. After buyer received it, he wanted his money back because he needed a 5/8 bore. It was listed with a 1/2 inch bore. And people wonder why I drink. Shessh. Bob

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E-bay also outsources a lot of their customer service to offshore call centers, try getting those people to understand anything. I had a question about how to refund or remove a shipping charge and the fees to me if someone hit buy it now on a spindle motor I was selling if someone arranged to pick it up. She told me she would transfer me to someone who answers E-bay Motors questions. I kept telling her It was an electric motor for industrial machinery and had nothing to do with a car. She kept insisting I needed to move my listing to E-bay Motors and talk to someone who answers those questions. They also try to conceal the fact they are not in the USA. Asked them where they are at and they will keep saying they are based in San Jose, California. As soon as I realize outsourced customer service people are not worth my time I get as belligerent and foul as possible until they hang up on me.

Newman109 said:

There will be an occasional scam on eBay, for sure.

On thing that is important if you are a frequent seller and use PayPal for payments coming to you, is to make absolutely certain that the address of the buyer is registered with PayPal. Sometimes a buyer will be in another country, say Canada or the UK with a registered address in their country. For some reason, possibly to avoid customs by having the item shipped to a friend in the US, they will ask you to ship to another address here. If you do this, you will be out of luck if the buyer claims that he never received the shipment. You could lose your item and your payment since PayPal can refund to a buyer over your objection.

I've had people who are registered in Canada and Mexico ask me to ship to a US address. I won't do it for the reasons mentioned.

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I have shipped things to a US address a few times for people registered overseas and never had an issue. They were CNC components off a machine I was parting out. The addresses checked out as forwarding companies for export. I had right in my listings no international shipping.

Dualkit said:

I have shipped things to a US address a few times for people registered overseas and never had an issue. They were CNC components off a machine I was parting out. The addresses checked out as forwarding companies for export. I had right in my listings no international shipping.

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Thankfully for you, the transactions went smoothly. The ship-to addresses have to be listed with PayPal of you won't have a leg to stand on if the items aren't received.