lathe position in shop, advice needed

Newb here so please allow for any dumb questions. I am setting up a small machine shop and have a lathe and a mill on a trailer in my yard. I am contemplating there position on relationship to the wall. The lathe manufacturer suggests no closer than 30" from the wall for maintenance issues. However, 30" seems very generous. How close can I position the lathe to the wall and still have access to the electronics and what not in the event I need to work on it. If two feet was enough then that would gain me nearly a foot of shop floor space which in this room is something, space is limited.
Same with mill, I know I have to keep room for right and left work space but how close to the wall can I really get, in real life as compare to Grizzlys best case scenario they would like me to use. room is about 12X24

Devices in question G4003G and G0759
One other thing while I have your ear, I was going to lag the lathe down but leveling it that way scares me a bit. Any opinion on the machine leveling feet you can but that have vibration foam an 3" wide feet. They would make leveling the lathe very easy.

Leave enough room to open any openings in the rear of it required for servicing etc. It there's nothing in the back just put it right against the wall

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How is the lathe meant to have chips removed?

My Mori Seiki is designed to make it easy from the back of the lathe, but since I've got it just far enough out from the wall to allow a short wrench on the leveling screws I have to reach in under the front of the bed and try and grab swarf by hand and drag them out, which usually means half of it ends on the floor instead of the bucket so there's extra mess to clean up.

I suspect that in a factory back in the day they had workers moving behind the lathes emptying the swarf while the operators worked at the front of the lathe.

cheers,
Michael

You will always be thankful for leaving enough room between lathe and window. Not wall. You need light and sometimes fresh air. Imagine hot rolled pieces and how that can stink on the first cut. Natural light from above is not bad, either.

So what if I do the 30" from the wall and window but use that as the workspace where i stand. This would leave the back of the lathe facing into the room for maintenance and the windows would be over my right shoulder. I t would use more floor space but I could have shelves and a window behind me. Is 30" just too narrow to work, if so how much farther from the wall should it be?
If I back it up to the wall the only thing That i see needing access for is the electric service. There is a large splash guard and undr that he drip pan. So I don't think I will need to get behind it to clean. I am freaking out about leveling this thing though. Thought I was going to bolt to the concrete but I see machine leveling legs and they say anti vibration pads and easy leveling.
Its all set to go as soon as I get my head straight.

One other thing, the wall use to be where the garage door was, so it can be removed with just little effort. I have it removed right now to bring the lathe into the shop and will just replace it and put the insulation back in. So, if need be, i could get 100% access by removing the screws holding the false wall in place. Zoning made me do it this way so the garage could revert back to a garage. I studied a wall to fit in the opening but no big =deal to remove it. Did I mention that leveling it freaks me out because I have to ask my neighbor to use his tractor with fork lifts and this means he h to stick around while i fiddle back and forth and lift the lathe, add a shim, nope too much lift the lathe again. Just seems a lot to ask of him. So if the leveling legs would work then I could do all that after the lathe is in place. I also wondered if it would be a bad idea to take threaded 3/8" rod and weld a nut and a heavy washer or two a couple inches up the rod. Then i could just turn the nut and the threaded rod would go up or down in the grommet to act as a leveling device. Seems if the washers were heavy enough and the weld was good it would give me the benefit of being lagged to the floor but also able to make fine leveling adjustments.
Thank you everybody for such awesome advice.

EVERYTHING is subject to being moved - lighting, power outlets, conduit, cords, disconnects are arranged accordingly.

Light machinery here is on casters. Heavier machinery is on dedicated machinery skates. All-metal casters with grease fittings recommended for the 'medium' mass goods, resilient ones only for lighter weight stuff. Northern has economical machinery skates for the heaviest.

Provide supplementary jackscrews & pads for leveling and operation. I have both electric and air wrenches to make jacking the rollers up off the deck painless for that.

Put it all away in its 'garaged' location, I can even get a motorcar in out of the weather and work on that as well with plenty of space.

Gives me effective use comparable to three or four times as much space as I actually have.

Couldn't really operate any other way without constant frustration. Why fight that when skates and such are so cheap and enduring?

Bill

Pinning yourself between the wall and the machine sounds like a really bad idea...

Just stick them next to the wall, if you need to move them, move them, they don't weigh anything.

As for having a guy hang out with a forklift until you level it, just use a pry bar.. The mill you
could probably just push it sideways and get one side off the ground, it weighs about the same as a
36" refrigerator, like the one in your kitchen.

Look up Tom Lipton Oxtoolco and abom79 on YouTube. Both have done videos on leveling a lathe. Much larger lathes than you have without using a tractor.

Oh, they are little guys...

If you need to get behind to service or clean...leave enough room to do so. If a cabinet door...either leave room so it opens or you can always remove to get in.

As they are what I'd consider easily moveable...put them where you think you want'em, run'em, if you need to move, a pinch bar will put them where ever you need in short work..wanna move further...pinch bar, a few small rods and a nudge will have it across the room in short time.

As to leveling...Vibration foam??? I'd place on solid concrete, level using machines leveling feet, if really out past adjustment, a plate or something solid under the real low foot, level and leave it...I'd skip lagging them down unless really going hog wild and you see position shifting. PS- I've gone hog wild running large eccentrics and machine stayed put...

Agreed with the sentiments expressed above. You are over-thinking this, and working way too hard with forklift and shims - I seriously doubt you will EVER get it leveled that way. Use adjustable machine feet; if your lathe didn't come with such, that can be your first machining project.

And DON'T put yourself in a limited space between the wall and the lathe - the very thought gives me the shivers.

Well , you may be the incredible hulk but 14400 pounds is just a bit out of my scootch over range. It is a 12X36 metal late on a stand

gmich said:

Well , you may be the incredible hulk but 14400 pounds is just a bit out of my scootch over range. It is a 12X36 metal late on a stand

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I think you have an extra zero in there? Maybe I missed something in the thread. Grizzly lists a shipping weight of 1330 lbs. The mill was sub 400 lbs. I've jacked up and moved a 22,000 lbs HMC with a porta power and skates. Was slow but got it done.

Enough room to run a push cart behind so 24 if you are a normal size guy. Head should be perhaps 3o+ away as you might bar feed something from that end .. would neve box my self between the machine and the wall for ease of loading and to and to get away fast if needed,

The mill full table travel and ease of loading with room for a push cart more ways around

If youre tall enough, machine some risers to put under the leveling pads. ALL of my machines sit on 6" risers aside from the fadal (that includes my nakamura cnc lathe). No more sore backs. It also makes life WAY easier to get your railroad jack underneath for when (not if) you have to move your gear again.
You do have a railroad jack right? If not, get one!
Then, for the smaller machines (under 5000lbs) get yourself a set of 4 car rollers (for moving your car around in the garage... the tires go on top and you push the car around) from horror freight....

With the railroad jack and the car dollies, you can move anything easily up to 5000 lbs, and save yourself a stack of cash.

Keep in mind machine tools are usually top heavy. NEVER push from the top! use a lining bar with a heavy rubber pad on the work end to pry your equipment around. A little common sense and some elbow grease will get it done.

Don't even think of pinning yourself between a machine and a wall, especially a manual lathe. turn the lathe out at 15-20 degrees with the headstock away from the wall, so you can load long shafting through the head stock as needed. turn the mill so you chips fly towards the wall (probably close to 35-40 degrees). The majority of guys run the mill from the right hand side of the knee, as your chips tend to sail out to the left of the column, and rearwards.

Most importantly, have fun!

gmich said:

Well , you may be the incredible hulk but 1440 pounds is just a bit out of my scootch over range. It is a 12X36 metal late on a stand

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14400 is a might heavy for a 12x36 Grizzly....

And even if it did weight 7 tons, it's still totally doable about with pry bars, hammers and shims. I've done it.

When I got my first lathe (a 10" Sheldon, about 1200lbs or so) unloaded it with a Hazard fraught tools engine hoist. Then used 3/4 round stock under the headstock, the engine hoist on the tailstock and a pinch bar to put it into final position.

I've lifting the headstock of a 10,000lb American Pacemaker by myself with a pinch bar and I'm no "incredible hulk", a pinch bar and steel shims are a pretty powerful combination. Honestly I couldn't believe I could lift it, but I still did it.

If the Lathe / Mill has an electrical cabinet mounted to the rear for controls, the minimum legal distance from the wall is 36" to the door of said cabinet as long as the cabinet door is not wider than 36". If the door is over 36" then the machine must be placed where the electrical door can be opened a minimum of 90°.

Now, in your garage, you may choose to ignore this legal requirement, however........ If something happens and you have an insurance claim, they could use that as a reason not to pay.

Tonytn36 said:

If the Lathe / Mill has an electrical cabinet mounted to the rear for controls, the minimum legal distance from the wall is 36" to the door of said cabinet as long as the cabinet door is not wider than 36". If the door is over 36" then the machine must be placed where the electrical door can be opened a minimum of 90°.

Now, in your garage, you may choose to ignore this legal requirement, however........ If something happens and you have an insurance claim, they could use that as a reason not to pay.

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?? If so....remove the offending cabinet. Remote the electricals to a more convenient location.

Do so within code, common sense, and with respect for future servicing.

The electrons won't give a damn. Not as if we were dealing with millimeter-wave or RADAR.

Bill

Put them on wheels and push them around like toys. Not really any better then that anyways, unless you consider .020 a heavy cut.

vonleyser said:

Put them on wheels and push them around like toys. Not really any better then that anyways, unless you consider .020 a heavy cut.

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But but but, their sitting in a trailer now...wheels on top of wheels...

Consider a pallet jack.

Build a floor stand that the pallet jack can lift.

In this stand make adjustable feet in corners via large bolts such as 5/8.

Thread a chunk of plate or weld a nut to a plate under each corner.

Lathe can be placed right next to wall and mill placed in corner.

Get a proper level too.

Pallet jack makes moving simple so lathe against wall noes not really violate any code as electrical is only serviced when moved away from wall.

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