Machine Safety

motion guru · Jan 26, 2010

I read this article today related to Lathe Safety . . . http://www.manmonthly.com.au/Article/Metal-lathes-can-they-be-made-safe/505797.aspx

I am also aware of a family friend who was pulled into a lathe last year and killed in North Portland.

We put safety systems on virtually all production machines that we manufacture for our customers, yet when I look at the 60's vintage Holbrook or 70's vintage Mori as well as our manual mills and our open side planer mill - I have to admit, we don't come close to modern safety shut offs / automatic braking that we do for the machines that we sell to others.

Anyone here ever experience a significant injury on an older manual lathe or mill? What kind of safety precautions have you taken to reduce the risk to the operator without making the machine impossible to operate?

Ox · Jan 26, 2010

How can these risks be minimised? A simple interlocked chuck guard connected via a Category 4 control system in accordance with AS4024.1 that prevents the machine from starting while open, will remove or significantly reduce most lathe safety risks.
These guards and Category 4 interlocking and control devices are readily available and adaptable for just about every brand of lathe on the market.

I have no idea what this is. ???

Yes - I have seen a close call by someone on my lathe yrs ago. He got wrapped up into the work piece. Tight shirt got tangled in his workpiece. (His own crankshaft - after hours.)

I know of another that his pony tail wrapped up into the lead screw. :rolleyes5:

However - these machines are being used less and less every day.

About the only work on an open engine lathe anymore is all setup. (Relating to the artical) There is not much "run" time as the [nearly] all work done on them is onesies. Big or small.

And even at that - folks aint gett'n hurt during the run time.

First artical of safety on open machines IMO is no pony tails near spindles and no loose clothing near powered lead screws.

And also note that people may get hurt when there is actual work done. Dooing it is much more dangerous than regulating or writing about it.

------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Joe788 · Jan 26, 2010

I knew a guy in the LA area who only had 1 arm. He lost the other in a lathe accident. It grabbed him and tossed him around for awhile until somebody came over to stop it. I believe he ended up suing his employer and winning, because the E stop switch had a little bar across the front of it to prevent accidental pressing. (As if he was going to reach the E stop while tangled up and rolling around at 200rpm).

pigpen60 · Jan 26, 2010

wether he could have hit the e-stop or not it shouldnt have had anything blocking it. and every op who saw and didnt report the blocked switch needs something in their file. safety is everyones job! now as to how to make the machine safe, dont turn it on! i understand making things as safe as possible but in the process were producing more idiots that need things idiot proofed. am i ranting? sorry, pigpen

JB @ C and L Machine · Jan 26, 2010

Posted in another thread how I caught my hand on a Bullard. Lesson learned!!! Dont put your hand where you wouldn't put your d*ck!!!!!!!!!!!!

Jay

Boris · Jan 26, 2010

motion guru said:
Anyone here ever experience a significant injury on an older manual lathe or mill? What kind of safety precautions have you taken to reduce the risk to the operator without making the machine impossible to operate?

We used chuck guards with an interlock switch when I was doing me apprenticeship, but the most common lathe accidents I seen/heard about have been either overalls in the leadscrews or the dreaded chuck key still in the chuck.

I was cured of that one day by my setter pulling the thing out of the chuck and throwing it at me. :fight:

But for the newbie VMC operators when they on the 4 axis mill, they get a spring loaded chuck key that cannot be left in the chuck, which is also a good idea for the lathes too

Boris

doug6949 · Jan 26, 2010

I kept track of machining accidents for several years and used the data in my safety classes. The engine lathe probably kills or dismembers more people than any other machine in the shop.

Unfortunately, almost nothing has been done (here in the US anyway) to improve the inherent safety of the engine lathe. Our new lathe has no safety improvements over the WWII machines I ran as an apprentice.

What I find more disturbing is the casual attitude toward lathe safety in most of the shops I visit. Category 4 interlocks won't prevent:

Dangling shirt tails
Files without handles
Pony tails
No safety glasses
Wearing gloves
Rotating shafts six feet out the rear of the headstock
Sanding strip (wrapped around the finger, of course)

Sanding strip alone accounts for at least one death in the US every ten years or so.

It all seems so strange considering the cost of an accident these days.

JS · Jan 26, 2010

I had a fellow worker put a 1.5 inch shaft in a lathe and yes it was coming out of the back of the machine. I told him to use the out board support and got the "it will be OK". I kept the shaft after he put a 90 degree bend in it as a reminder.

motion guru · Jan 26, 2010

I am going to look at putting a regenerative brake on the spindle motor of our Mori - I have never liked the way it starts across the line with no clutch with gears slamming and the spline drive wearing on the spindle gearbox input shaft.

Seems like the biggest challenge is how to trip the E-Stop - a mushroom button would need to be where it would be easy to reach while you are getting wrapped up. Or a pull cord along the front of the machine or above the machine strung from the head stock to the tail stock?

3t3d · Jan 26, 2010

I've seen a stop bar along the front of a lathe, it was the length of the bed, any pressure on it stopped the chuck quick!, with a brake.

Ox · Jan 26, 2010

Or a pull cord along the front of the machine or above the machine strung from the head stock to the tail stock?

Rubber mixers have just such a deal. You would NOT want to git sucked into one of them! A bathtub die would be better! :eek:

(Quicker at least!)

---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Stuart Caruk · Jan 26, 2010

Mushroom buttons would most likely not be where you need them. The safety cable that you can kick or grab would be handy. I once saw a big boring mill that had an over the road truck air brake actuator holding a barke band away from the spindle where it entered the back of the headstock. They had a cable that ran around the machien. If you kicked it, the machine motor would stop, and the air would let off, engaging the spring brake that would clamp onto and stop the spindle. It was a rube Goldberg creation, but if you ever needed it, I can see where it could come in handy...

The Energy Rebel · Jan 27, 2010

I like the idea about a "low speed" door override".
Might not prevent all injuries, but could at least minimize the damege or give a guy a chance, anyway.

Most of the accidents I've seen were either carelessness or that 1-a-million freak happening.

Hdpg · Jan 27, 2010

JS said:
.... "it will be OK"....

I think this is the root cause of just about every 'accident' on a machine; they are rarely accidents, sometimes ignorance, most often stupidity.

Put more safety features on and more people will disable them because they get in the way.

Mark Leigh · Jan 27, 2010

Safety

I just gotta ask, how many guys and gals here still run a lathe while wearing long sleeve shirt ? I'm just a newbie, but in classes I've taken that's the first rule, but yet most every shop setting I go into, people are wearing long sleeves------------------------------------------

rj newbould · Jan 27, 2010

I often run my lathe with a long sleeve shop coat on. :eek:

BUT.... I'm AWARE of what I'm doing and how to do it safely. If I'm distracted or not up to par, I don't even turn the machine on.

It's when you don't pay attention that bad things happen. Quickly... That will bite you whatever you're wearing.

Joe D Grinder · Jan 27, 2010

I see a fairly simple opportunity here for somebody to make their first million. I first thought of it many years ago, before the technology was in place. Now it should be a piece of cake with VR technology, etc.

I joked years ago that one of my machines needed an "OH SHIT" switch, programmed to shut the machine off when I screamed the above-mentioned phrase, or simply some other code like "woah, you #$%^!" at a certain decible level.

Should be cheap to make, and everybody could use at least one.

Somebody jump right on it!....Joe

SIP6A · Jan 27, 2010

How about a dead man switch like locomotives have, foot comes off the switch machine goes into emergency stop.

Tonytn36 · Jan 27, 2010

Put a SICK Safety rated laser scanner over the headstock. Anything blocks it's view to the tailstock (such as your arm or YOU going over the spindle, it shuts off automatically.

motion guru · Jan 27, 2010

Joe - I have given thought about the butt pucker pressure switch, but each employee would want there own which would drive costs up considerably or you could go with some kind of sharing but that would require extra time for the picky user who would insist on the prior user washing it. Then you would have the problem of . . . well, you get the idea.

Tony - I thought about that - you would need some kind of debounce timer to prevent nuisance trips when swarf would occasionally break the beam. I think this idea has the most merit and it could be as simple as a retroreflective Photo eye with a reflector at the tailstock and sensor at the head stock.

Machine Safety

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