small shops hourly rate

mls · Feb 1, 2009

Hi I have a small shop with a few manual machines and a 2006 haas vf3 I only work part time as I have a full time job as a cnc programmer / setup person (pa) if it matters. My work always always trys to get me to take work home to do usually 1 to 15 pcs they only pay $30 hr and dont pay for any program time and not much for set up either. I say no I sould just stay here and make them I would make more on overtime.

Bottom line I dont run my machine for that, my rate is $50 hr cnc time plus setup and program time.

Is this unreasonable my $50 hr???????

They do find people to make parts for this price I usually have to fix them /deburr them or something (parts are never to print in some way)

At $30 hr how would you ever make it buy new equipment tools wages insurance my thought is you have to invest back into your buisness to grow my name is on every part I make (I take pride in what I do) at this $30 you would have to give up quality some where to make it I think

Sorry for the rambling Thank you for any input you have Mike

rj newbould · Feb 1, 2009

It's just not feasible to work that cheap....Period.

gbent · Feb 1, 2009

$30 on whos hours? It sounds like you need to work very slowly, while multi-tasking on things you want to do.

AccessDbGuy · Feb 1, 2009

And Your Liability Is...?

Let's see if I've got this right... your employer wants you to do thier work for them, at your home, for less than they would pay you to do it at their work site?

hmmmm...seems to me they might have a long-term plan to get more of their work done by you, at your shop, for less than it costs them now.

And what of the liability?

Do they provide you a legal document, properly signed by someone in higher management that is authorized to sign documents committing the company. that SPECIFICALLY states they are providing you full and complete coverage for anything that might come about?

You know - parts you make somehow fail to meet the ultimate customer's specifications? Or you get hurt while doing the company's work at your home, and they will honor any and all related medical claims? Your home is busted in while you are away and someone steals not only some of your tools, but also takes their material...you replace, or they do?

I offer for your consideration that if your company is that pleased with the quality and timlyness of your work (and it sounds like they are), then either they offer to let you do it at their place of work, with all the related benifits and overtime pay, OR they create an actual sub-contract agreement with you that provides whatever legal and medical protections your lawyer thinks should be required to protect you.

My 2¢ and good luck to you.

Stan Db

mls · Feb 1, 2009

he bids work to cheap he thinks he needs every job but then subs work out for $30 hr you have a price per piece which works out to $30 hr all the time if you do the math with out set up or programming only pays machine run time (he supplies you with the target price he needs the part for) he gets mad because I wont do this I keep telling him how will I or anyone for that matter ever get ahead at that wage what do other shops charge for being a sub contractor or what do you base you qoutes at thankyou Mike

rj newbould · Feb 1, 2009

I don't know any truly professional shop who charges less than $60 an hour. More on many CNC machines. AND they get paid for programming and setup time as well as anything else needed for that specific job.

At $30/hr, you would be paying them for the privilege of doing their work.

Seekins · Feb 1, 2009

It shouldnt matter if you are working from home or a 10000000sq feet shop with all the overhead. Working for 30$/hr does nothing but hurt our profession. Thats why he wants you to do it for that price. He can get someone else

Quote him a price per part and go from there. You know how long it takes to make it and maybe you can fixture it in a way that you can make $60/hr.

Its cheaper for you to sit on your hands than it is to work for nothing.

mls · Feb 1, 2009

yes I do have other work. He just uses people to make him money even his consultant tells him he is cheap and should give his subs a decent job sometimes (not I need it tommarrow) or slip them a few extra bucks sometimes.
I will not be a part of the under bid war to get work we all just look bad and make it harder to make a living in this line of work basiclly once the economy gets better he will say that is all I paid last time for that job why is it more now.

Limy Sami · Feb 1, 2009

Lets look at this another way.

You've a full time job

This works part time, in your own home shop? with little or no business rates taxes etc etc. AKA bit part subbing where I come from.

Your boss gives you the work, you don't have to go and find it

You take the work home with you and return same on your daily commute? ....... no motoring costs

The work is priced, on at take it or leave it basis? .......... so you lose no time quoting.

The work pays $30 / hour.

MMMM? with that sort of set up over here I'd say $30 or £20 / hr (@$1.50 - £1) was pretty good going.
In my shop (admittedly without CNC) out of £20/hr I'd hopefully clear £15 and be happy with it.

That's price work, whole different ball game from hourly pay,...... welcome to a new world.

dkmc · Feb 1, 2009

I'm with Sami.......figure out how to do it faster and quit squawkin about $30/hr when you don't have all the associated self employed BS, sales, phone calls, and quoting to do, and overhead to worry about.
It COULD be worse....

How does he pay for this work.....do you wait 30 or 60 days for a check like most shop owners do?

mls · Feb 1, 2009

so your saying to make $60 for 3 or 4 hr work he thinks he should only pat machine run time is a good deal. I am a legal buisness that pays taxes

mls · Feb 1, 2009

60 to 90 days and then you have to ask or call

Jim Shaper · Feb 1, 2009

Sami, why would you work for yourself at a rate lower than you could work for someone else with no risk, and no responsibility of procuring said work, and all the risk of owning the machines and such?

Pardon me, but that seems rather dumb.

The whole point of self employment is to do better than someone else is going to do for you. The shop owner is using the OP's shop position as a means for controlling his income potential from the investment he's made outside of the full time job. He can have him sub them out and take no wear and tear, tooling costs, and overhead (rent, utilities, insurance) in the process while still getting the guy working for the same wage he's being paid while bossman is incurring such expenses.

The guy is pulling one over on you if you take this kind of crap. Bid accordingly on the work so that you're competitive with the other shops capable of doing the same QUALITY of work you do (no rework or excessive delivery times). Right now he's happy you're being a sucker and making him even more money off the clock than you are on it.

Yeah, it could be worse when bossman fires him and expects him to go fulltime on his own with 30/hr jobs.

Limy Sami · Feb 1, 2009

Jim Shaper said:
Sami, why would you work for yourself at a rate lower than you could work for someone else with no risk, and no responsibility of procuring said work, and all the risk of owning the machines and such?

The whole point of self employment is to do better than someone else is going to do for you. .

I had a very strong feeling this thread was going to be contentious, as they always are.

However, I agree with you on self employment, and up to a point on working at home for less than you get at work.

BUT the question was about small shop rates, and whatever the rights and wrongs of the $30 / hr, but as I said, for that set up over here it's a little - app 10% above the going rate.

Any item or service is only worth what someone is prepared to pay, theres a few outfits round me who are still shouting to anyone that'll listen they're not working for less than X,..... they ain't doing much, if anything........... and you know what?.... the bills keep coming in.

It's called business, and you either play or don't.

FWIW ;- If this scenario was over here and I lived round the corner from mls, I'd happily take that work off him for $24 / hour thus giving him 20% or $6 for every hour of my time for doing sweet FA.

mls · Feb 1, 2009

I do not take this work from him as I said earlier I wont run my machine for $30 hr I have only done one job for him he gave me the price I said no then when back told him a real price he gave it to me at my price cause he really needed the parts and no one could do them on his time frame.

He just always ask me and I tell him I cant work for that price.

I am tring to go full time I dont want to work for free you will get no where in the longrun you will end up with old machines that you never were able to upgrade and asking yourself where I went wrong ( I have done this in a earlier landscape buisness) all I did is kept tring harder until I gave up and went back to machining to make more money working for someone else. Now I dont want to go down this road again.

I am just interested in what others charge for machine work
thanks Mike

calvin b · Feb 1, 2009

MLS,
RJ said it all in post no#2.... There is so much wisdom in what appears a simple statement of fact that it is staggering..
Ponder and heed his advice...
Stay safe
Calvin

mls · Feb 1, 2009

Sami what is your wage down there for programmers / setup people I make $23.50hr + benifits to work for someone else

dkmc · Feb 1, 2009

Have you studied the job from all angles?
Have you tried to come up with a way to do more pieces per hour and do it faster than it's done in house?

A moot point without knowing all the details about said job/work.....and how it's being done in house, possibly someone with a bit of cleverness could do it faster with better tooling or fixturing....etc,etc. And then it's not $30/hr....

But it sounds like you've done all that and there's no way you can do it faster or cheaper....

dk

mls · Feb 1, 2009

it is mostly 1 to 10 pcs with the part getting fliped 4 or 6 times not really production work prototype work

Limy Sami · Feb 1, 2009

mls said:
Sami what is your wage down there for programmers / setup people I make $23.50hr + benifits to work for someone else

Sorry I can't tell you that, it's not my field and I don't know any a quick post in the CNC forum might get you an answer.

small shops hourly rate

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