What's new
What's new

New machine day

Oldwrench

Titanium
Joined
May 21, 2009
Location
Wyoming, USA
Recently we gave away three older turning centers to make room on the floor for this. We have a 1997 Haas VF0 with a 4-head 5C 4th axis that has been faithfully making the same parts all day for about 17 years. There's nothing wrong with the parts--they repeat closer than our ability to measure, BUT logic says there will have to come a time when the mill breaks down. For example, the spring fingers that hold the tools in the changer actually wore out and we had to switch the tools to the unused positions. You might think, hey, now we're good for another 17 years, but nobody's that cheap, not even me. So, enter Haas number eight, a new VF2SS, to take over that job. The old one will now spot, drill and tap two holes in the same part, a much less demanding assignment than plowing a cermet endmill in steel at 5000 RPM. Kind of like going out to pasture.

I know it's somewhat fashionable to disparage Haas mills, but it should be pointed out that while they were originally conceived as not much more than an affordable way for shops to get into CNC, they haven't exactly been sitting still technically. The evolution in every area is easy to see, comparing the old and new side by side. To me the really astonishing part is they're still affordable.

That guy on the forklift is an artist...
 

Attachments

  • Near miss with forklift.jpg
    Near miss with forklift.jpg
    93.6 KB · Views: 999
  • New VF2SS.jpg
    New VF2SS.jpg
    96.4 KB · Views: 784
  • Old Haas VF0.jpg
    Old Haas VF0.jpg
    95.1 KB · Views: 780
Congrats! I don't hate Haas, I appreciate ours for what it does (and does better than the Fadal). I wish we had something with the acceleration of a VF-2SS. Maybe someday.

Does that have the next gen control? Curious to hear feedback if so.

Enjoy that new lower cycle time! :cheers:
 
Recently we gave away three older turning centers to make room on the floor for this. We have a 1997 Haas VF0 with a 4-head 5C 4th axis that has been faithfully making the same parts all day for about 17 years. There's nothing wrong with the parts--they repeat closer than our ability to measure, BUT logic says there will have to come a time when the mill breaks down. For example, the spring fingers that hold the tools in the changer actually wore out and we had to switch the tools to the unused positions. You might think, hey, now we're good for another 17 years, but nobody's that cheap, not even me. So, enter Haas number eight, a new VF2SS, to take over that job. The old one will now spot, drill and tap two holes in the same part, a much less demanding assignment than plowing a cermet endmill in steel at 5000 RPM. Kind of like going out to pasture.

I know it's somewhat fashionable to disparage Haas mills, but it should be pointed out that while they were originally conceived as not much more than an affordable way for shops to get into CNC, they haven't exactly been sitting still technically. The evolution in every area is easy to see, comparing the old and new side by side. To me the really astonishing part is they're still affordable.

That guy on the forklift is an artist...

Very nice, Congrats!
 
You can actually buy a whole new tool carousel platter assembly from Haas and it's not that expensive. I think it was around $1000 when I last inquired (at least 3 years ago). They are aluminum and I had one that corroded so bad it had holes in it. Musta been running some really sweet coolant...
 
Nice machine. What rpm spindle option did you get?

12K, it's probably standard. Don't use TSC because we do a lot of dry cutting with cermets. Haas bundles various options into packages and it's kind of luck of the draw. This came with a probe but there wasn't enough time for the operators to absorb that. They just found the workpiece locations the old way with a gage bar and edge finder and then made corrections after inspecting the first parts. The Haas guy has promised to come back and teach everybody how to use it. Don't need it for setup because that never changes, but tool breakage detection might be nice. Never had anything that fancy, usually we detect that sort of thing by the noise. I'm wondering how much it would add to the cycle time (before you say it: yes it would probably be a lot less time than recovering from a broken tool).

Does that have the next gen control? Curious to hear feedback if so. Enjoy that new lower cycle time!

Now that is the big question. The distances between the work offsets is pretty short. The big gain will probably be tool change, since it will index to the next tool in advance and it will rapid exactly twice as fast as the old machine. I doubt we'll be able to speed up the actual milling because that is fairly well optimized, not to mention limited forcewise by holding the work in a 5C collet. As for the control, I don't know. The guy said we would notice a more fluid execution of moves. Net time in the cut won't change but with a metric ton of positioning moves because of the part shape, times four, it should shorten the cycle time. I don't have any idea how much but will know by 9AM tomorrow and will report.
 
I'd love to hear more about the jobs that you need a cermet end mill on!

Me too. I didn't even know anyone made endmills from Cermet... I've talked to Oldwrench before about Cermets, and I believe he's definitely well experienced with them, but I didn't even know they were an option for endmills. Definitely curious to hear more!
 
Recently we gave away three older turning centers to make room on the floor for this. We have a 1997 Haas VF0 with a 4-head 5C 4th axis that has been faithfully making the same parts all day for about 17 years. There's nothing wrong with the parts--they repeat closer than our ability to measure, BUT logic says there will have to come a time when the mill breaks down. For example, the spring fingers that hold the tools in the changer actually wore out and we had to switch the tools to the unused positions. You might think, hey, now we're good for another 17 years, but nobody's that cheap, not even me. So, enter Haas number eight, a new VF2SS, to take over that job. The old one will now spot, drill and tap two holes in the same part, a much less demanding assignment than plowing a cermet endmill in steel at 5000 RPM. Kind of like going out to pasture.

I know it's somewhat fashionable to disparage Haas mills, but it should be pointed out that while they were originally conceived as not much more than an affordable way for shops to get into CNC, they haven't exactly been sitting still technically. The evolution in every area is easy to see, comparing the old and new side by side. To me the really astonishing part is they're still affordable.

That guy on the forklift is an artist...

Looks like you spent the extra $6K on the tool setter and spindle probe. We love them in our VF2YT. Really makes a difference when touching off on the part and putting in new tools. I can have all the tools in our carousel touched off for length in just a few minutes with one macro.

JustAbout
 
Tool break check in my 2014 UMC750 is about 20 seconds or so. If you search the Haas forum, you will find a macro you can use for the toolbreak. I mean, it is in your control now since you have the probe option, but there is one that lets you use an unused M code to activate it which is sweet!
 
Recently we gave away three older turning centers to make room on the floor for this. We have a 1997 Haas VF0 with a 4-head 5C 4th axis that has been faithfully making the same parts all day for about 17 years. There's nothing wrong with the parts--they repeat closer than our ability to measure, BUT logic says there will have to come a time when the mill breaks down. For example, the spring fingers that hold the tools in the changer actually wore out and we had to switch the tools to the unused positions. You might think, hey, now we're good for another 17 years, but nobody's that cheap, not even me. So, enter Haas number eight, a new VF2SS, to take over that job. The old one will now spot, drill and tap two holes in the same part, a much less demanding assignment than plowing a cermet endmill in steel at 5000 RPM. Kind of like going out to pasture.

I know it's somewhat fashionable to disparage Haas mills, but it should be pointed out that while they were originally conceived as not much more than an affordable way for shops to get into CNC, they haven't exactly been sitting still technically. The evolution in every area is easy to see, comparing the old and new side by side. To me the really astonishing part is they're still affordable.

That guy on the forklift is an artist...

So four tool changer break downs per year, times 17 years is 68 service visits. 68 x $500ish per call = $34,000. Not bad!
 
So four tool changer break downs per year, times 17 years is 68 service visits. 68 x $500ish per call = $34,000. Not bad!

I would go reread his post. No repairs only skipping tool positions with worn out fingers,after 17 years. Finger themselves from haas are about $40 for a pair.
 
I think Haas has done a good job of making incremental fixes over the years. Just about every time I buy parts I get an updated design. It's always better and it's backward compatible. This is especially true on the electrical side.

What Haas refuses to do is make fundamental changes to make them a first rate machine. I'm sure that's just because of cost. I think as the Taiwanese, Korean, and Chinese machines eat more and more of the entry level market Haas will be forced to make these changes.
 
What Haas refuses to do is make fundamental changes to make them a first rate machine. I'm sure that's just because of cost.

You can always make something cost more. The trick is to make it cost less, or in terms of value per dollar, effectively less. Considering Haas sells more machines per year than anybody on the planet it's a bit hard to find fault with their business model. It's like telling Ford they'd sell more Fusions if they evolved it into an S-class Mercedes competitor...
 








 
Back
Top