OSHA cited us for lockout/tagout

OSHA came in last week for a surprise visit. After a talk with the boss's and managers, The OSHA officer decide to cite us for failure to LOTO while

changing tooling/inserts in our CNC machines. After reading the LOTO scope, application and purpose, I feel we are exempt from this costly and

unnecessary practice. To me, the first sentence and many other sections in this example exclude us from this but maybe I'm not understanding

correctly.


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=9804&p_table=STANDARDS

If anyone has experience with this please speak up. I think this has gotten way out of hand.

The machines we have are you run of the mill 3ax turning centers and 4ax mills.

Thoughts?

"Minor tool changes and adjustments, and other minor servicing activities, which take place during normal production operations, are not covered by this standard if they are routine, repetitive, and integral to the use of the equipment for production, provided that the work is performed using alternative measures which provide effective protection (See Subpart O of this Part)."

What was the inspector's interpretation of the exception quoted above?

Looks to me like this excludes changing inserts -

1910.147(a)(2)(i)1910.147(a)(2)(ii)1910.147(a)(2)(ii)(A)1910.147(a)(2)(ii)(B)I believe you'll have to appeal the citation, I'm told this usually means negotiating the rediculous fine down to something that just hurts instead of kills the company. Call your insurance agent, your ins company may have contacts that consult on things like this. In PA we have a college that does OSHA inspection consulting, they examined my shop and told me what to do to prepare, and having that knowlegeable person's information is invaluable.

MotoX said:

OSHA came in last week for a surprise visit. After a talk with the boss's and managers, The OSHA officer decide to cite us for failure to LOTO while

changing tooling/inserts in our CNC machines. After reading the LOTO scope, application and purpose, I feel we are exempt from this costly and

unnecessary practice. To me, the first sentence and many other sections in this example exclude us from this but maybe I'm not understanding

correctly.


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=9804&p_table=STANDARDS

If anyone has experience with this please speak up. I think this has gotten way out of hand.

The machines we have are you run of the mill 3ax turning centers and 4ax mills.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

Unless I am mis-reading something, did anyone explain to him/her you need power to the machine to get the tool out of the machine?? Yes, I know some machines have ATC access doors, but on something like a Haas, they are meant to be loaded through the spindle, so not sure how you could lock it out.

MotoX said:

OSHA came in last week for a surprise visit. After a talk with the boss's and managers, The OSHA officer decide to cite us for failure to LOTO while

changing tooling/inserts in our CNC machines. After reading the LOTO scope, application and purpose, I feel we are exempt from this costly and

unnecessary practice. To me, the first sentence and many other sections in this example exclude us from this but maybe I'm not understanding

correctly.


https://www.osha.gov/pls/oshaweb/owadisp.show_document?p_id=9804&p_table=STANDARDS

If anyone has experience with this please speak up. I think this has gotten way out of hand.

The machines we have are you run of the mill 3ax turning centers and 4ax mills.

Thoughts?

Click to expand...

OSHA usually does not show up without a complaint being filed. Sounds like they were on a fishing expedition unless you have had a lot of serious injuries.

I would suggest that you quietly find out what the real personnel issues are. Could be a disgruntled fired employee or else some one that is still on the payroll that has an ax to grind.

Not to be unsafe but unsolicited OSHA visits means somebody made a phone call.

Is this new? I have never heard of something like that being cited.

I've seen OSHA walk in a shop with all the door interlocks removed and all they cared about was extension cords and grinder guards.

Ziggy2 said:

OSHA usually does not show up without a complaint being filed. Sounds like they were on a fishing expedition unless you have had a lot of serious injuries.

I would suggest that you quietly find out what the real personnel issues are. Could be a disgruntled fired employee or else some one that is still on the payroll that has an ax to grind.

Not to be unsafe but unsolicited OSHA visits means somebody made a phone call.

Click to expand...

The OHSA agent told us that this was a randomly generated check.

We haven't had any injuries in almost 4 years.

We've kept the same employees for almost 8 years.


I don't think that the agent fully understands what it means to change tooling. The agent was in the shop less than 3 minutes. This was the only "infraction" that

the agent "found". the rest of the agent's 3 hour visit was spent in the office.

rklopp said:

"Minor tool changes and adjustments, and other minor servicing activities, which take place during normal production operations, are not covered by this standard if they are routine, repetitive, and integral to the use of the equipment for production, provided that the work is performed using alternative measures which provide effective protection (See Subpart O of this Part)."

What was the inspector's interpretation of the exception quoted above?

Click to expand...

At the time of inspection, i did not know the statutes. It was only after the agent cited us formally that I looked into it and determined that the agent doesn't

fully understand the writing. WE will be contesting the citation if it cannot be resolved beforehand.

I would certainly appeal it.

How much are they trying to ding you for?

MotoX said:

The OHSA agent told us that this was a randomly generated check.

We haven't had any injuries in almost 4 years.

We've kept the same employees for almost 8 years.


I don't think that the agent fully understands what it means to change tooling. The agent was in the shop less than 3 minutes. This was the only "infraction" that

the agent "found". the rest of the agent's 3 hour visit was spent in the office.

Click to expand...

What things took 3 hours in the office? If this really was a surprise inspection, the bogus violation might have been a way to get some information for some reason. OSHA can't be asking for records without just cause.

I'm still a little surprised that they have the man power to be doing surprise inspections when they barely have enough to do accident and injury investigations.

Many years ago OSHA cited a guy I know for the isles in his shop being too narrow for the fork lift to safely pass through them. The shop DID NOT own or ever use a fork lift.
The owner decided to pay the fine rather than contest it and give the inspector a reason to make a dozen more visits over the next year or so.
I think some of these inspectors are just looking for a handout when they do these surprise inspections, or possibly filling a quota.
Then again, if you find any government run agency that uses logic and common sense as the basis of it's actions and decisions...

Derek Smalls said:

Many years ago OSHA cited a guy I know for the isles in his shop being too narrow for the fork lift to safely pass through them. The shop DID NOT own or ever use a fork lift.
The owner decided to pay the fine rather than contest it and give the inspector a reason to make a dozen more visits over the next year or so.
I think some of these inspectors are just looking for a handout when they do these surprise inspections, or possibly filling a quota.
Then again, if you find any government run agency that uses logic and common sense as the basis of it's actions and decisions...

Click to expand...

And him spending 3 hours in the office after only minutes on the shop floor my suspicion would be that he was waiting for "option 2" to be suggested.

BTW, was it the Oklahoma state OSHA guy, or fed? Here in CA, I have only ever encountered CALOSHA out in the field. Usually they are fairly reasonable. They are in a tough spot if there is something egregious going on, like an employer asking guys to un-jam a rock crusher with a long rod while the machine's rotor is running. The employer goes into sob-story mode about the gummint trying to drive him out of business. The OSHA guy is rightfully trying to prevent a workplace fatality.

It seems to me that your tool changes should be exempt. I would certainly appeal the citation even if there is no fine.

If you could be cited for tool changes on a CNC, they could also cite your company if you changed tools on a manual lathe. That would mean a trip over to the power panel ( probably remote from the lathe) and locking/tagging the panel while making your change. Then, following the change, there would be another trip to the panel to remove the lock and turn the breaker back on.

That's not very efficient, is it?

Do you have ECPL documents for your machines with section F filled out for routine jobs? If not, the fine probably will stand because you don't.

For those not aware, the ECPL is the document that lists what types of energy is present at the machine (including GRAVITY!), where the energy sources of the machine come to the machine, where the lock out points of the machine are located, how to safely shut down and disconnect each energy source and how to re-apply each energy source and start the equipment back up. Then Section F is to describe each task that can be performed on the machine WITHOUT locking it out and a procedure for how to "Safe" the equipment for each of those tasks. This document should be kept with / near the machine and your personnel should be trained in how to use the documentation and where the documentation is located.

Years ago we received some mags with OSHA related articles.
Most of the violations were related to paper work, lack or or improper procedures. Even with serious injuries the fines were generated from more from administration.
Probably why the agent spent more time in the office than on the floor.

Dave

Even though it would be a different fine, Did OSHA find any of the OEM safety controls bypassed on the machine?

FWIW- If you contact OSHA to inspect your facility as a good jesture, they are far more lenient when issues are found.

OSHA's Cooperative Programs | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

Never hurts to start a proactive relationship with OSHA.

Tonytn36 said:

Do you have ECPL documents for your machines with section F filled out for routine jobs? If not, the fine probably will stand because you don't.

For those not aware, the ECPL is the document that lists what types of energy is present at the machine (including GRAVITY!), where the energy sources of the machine come to the machine, where the lock out points of the machine are located, how to safely shut down and disconnect each energy source and how to re-apply each energy source and start the equipment back up. Then Section F is to describe each task that can be performed on the machine WITHOUT locking it out and a procedure for how to "Safe" the equipment for each of those tasks. This document should be kept with / near the machine and your personnel should be trained in how to use the documentation and where the documentation is located.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your input, Tony. We do have procedure sheets for each and every machine detailing lockout/tagout to isolate the machine fro potential energy sources.

The agent addressed this separately in our conversation and concurred that they were adequate for OSHA regs.

We have in the past invited OSHA to come in and tell us what we needed to correct. Ive spent a lot of time getting all of this stuff in order so that when they did come in, they wouldn't be able to find anything not up to spec.


I have a feeling that there is just a quota to be met, and they are preying on employers that would rather just pay the fine and go on.

Being in the safety department of a major automotive manufacturer for sometime, I would surmise the following. Be for warned what I'm about to say, most will not like. (Me included but it is what it is.)
The inspectors line of thinking regarding citation is probably based on:

1910.147(a)(2)(ii) Normal production operations are not covered by this standard (See Subpart O of this Part). Servicing and/or maintenance which takes place during normal production operations is covered by this standard only if:

1910.147(a)(2)(ii)(A)An employee is required to remove or bypass a guard or other safety device; or

1910.147(a)(2)(ii)(B)An employee is required to place any part of his or her body into an area on a machine or piece of equipment where work is actually performed upon the material being processed (point of operation) or where an associated danger zone exists during a machine operating cycle.

Note: Exception to paragraph (a)(2)(ii): Minor tool changes and adjustments, and other minor servicing activities, which take place during normal production operations, are not covered by this standard if they are routine, repetitive, and integral to the use of the equipment for production, provided that the work is performed using alternative measures which provide effective protection (See Subpart O of this Part).

Is alternative measures in place/adequate?

One thing that gets many company's by the short hairs. OSHA not only looks at what is being done and when but Whois doing it. Example: If changing collets is a routine function of production and is done by the machine operator, then it may very well be exempt, but if a maintenance or service associate changes the collets then it will not be exempt because maintenance associates do maintenance not production. {Same action + different title = lottabutthurt} (Nice huh? don't shoot the messenger)

Even if 1910.142(a)(2)(iii)(B)(1), 'shutdown of equipment is impractical' applies, it still requires that special equipment is used the insure employees' safety, 1910.147(a)(2)(iii)(B)(3)


Now what I suggest is when you receive your citation via certified mail, you will be given the right of an informal conference with the area manager .... do it ALWAYS. Even if your guilty as sin and you intend to pay up, OSHA has a tendency to reduce the fine when requested at the conference and it also helps to get clarification of why the inspector came to that conclusion. DON'T go in guns a blazzin, you will come to regret it but DO express why you feel citation does not apply and request explanation to the contrary. After all the inspectors are only human. If following the conference you still feel that you want appeal by all means do so, just be sure and file in time, and be for warned that's always a tough row to hoe. It is your responsibility to the judge to prove your case. You will want to get a good attorney involved.

Hope this helps.