Owners - What have you sacrificed to go into business?

I ask because I constantly wrestle with the decision to go into business, or just keep working for others. Naturally, if the business succeeds, there can be rewards both financially and intangible, to owning and running your own business. And for the most part, I've seen many of the challenges shop owners face, even if only from a distance, once everything is running successfully.

But I'm curious what you had to sacrifice to get there. And at the various stages along the way.

As the local/national/world economy is still shaky, the demand for skilled machinists continues to rise, and my own personal life keeps taking shape, the biggest question that I seem to come up against is, "what will have to give" in order to get started, and make it successfully.

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For those wondering, I don't think I'd try to go down the job-shop, production shop, or even employees for as long as I could avoid it. I believe my "ideal" business model would be a 1-man show, but split up my time between making quick-turnaround and/or emergency parts for larger, already stressed factories, (of which there are plenty around locally,) as well as doing some "advising" and training for said shops and factories. (I cringe of the thought of that awful "C" word...) Hopefully this would allow some stability with the "advising"/training role, but then the lightly equipped shop would also allow to mix it up enough to stay interested. I could go on and on about what my "Ideal" situation would be, but I think we could all agree things seldom go as planned...

Concerning doing machining AND training/advising/ consulting... My experience has been that people are not willing to pay a machinist for knowledge.. The general perception is that the only value a machinist has is when he is making chips. They expect us to GIVE the knowledge away.. On the other hand, I think I could make more money if I did no machining, dressed up, shaved, drove a nice car, and just did troubleshooting/ consulting. JMHO..

Consulting is way more profitable if you have good contacts and steady work. All you need is software , laptop, and a car to make $100-150 an hour. Want to get out tomorrow? No payments or machines to sell.

I've given up a lot of time off doing this. Last few years I've been trying to grow and become more "5 axis" oriented shop vs just a general job shop and 70 hour weeks are the norm.
Good thing I'm young with a very understanding wife (We dated for 5 years before she said yes so she knew what she was getting herself into...sometimes she comes to the shop and helps run parts as well).

overtime pay...... paid vacation....paid sick leave....those are the biggies. no such thing as paid sick leave or paid vacation when noone is there earning....

I had nothing to lose when I started. I had quit my shortline railroad job, because the boss wasn't doing his job. I basically ran the railroad the last 2 years I was there and was losing money personally because of it. I quit, drove truck for a month for a friends LTL company. Quit that, and worked hard to open my shop 4 months later.

I started with a very well equipped shop, and very little debt. Basically I could work at McDonalds 32 hours a week, and make the payments.

Its not as easy as you may think. I am having a slow year. I am grateful I have little debt. But, on the bright side, I now have time to spend with the GF and work on my personal projects.

Josh

Jashley73 said:

I ask because I constantly wrestle with the decision to go into business, or just keep working for others.

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if that's the case, I think you have your answer.

its night and day and for those inclined to endure it all, you're pretty much the type for whom a job is not much of an option. I don't mean to be negative, that's how i see it...needs to be a burning desire to risk everything, work all the time and put up with all the crap flung from every direction.

My wife has learned the biggest lesson of all. Just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean you HAVE to spend it. This business seems to come with big ups and big downs, so you have to be prepared for the downs at all times. If you have a shitty month, that means you won't have much coming in for at least two months... one slow month and another month waiting on NET30 accounts to come in. Meanwhile you're still paying bills, ordering material and tooling, etc. If you can't stand to eat hotdogs or cup-o-noodles for dinner once in awhile, you might want to find something else to do.

I took my first full weekend off in 3+ years a couple weeks ago. At least that's what I said I was going to do. Sat on the couch and watched a couple hours of TV, then went right back to the shop because, at this point, all I know to do is work. "Relaxing" isn't relaxing to me anymore, it's actually more stressful than anything else because I know nothing is getting accomplished in the shop. We don't have kids or needy friends, but if we did those relationships would be extremely strained on my end. My wife has just learned to do her own thing on the weekends, and we have an hour or two to catch up after work over dinner. Dinner might be served in the shop or the house, but food is food.

Matt@RFR said:

My wife has learned the biggest lesson of all. Just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean you HAVE to spend it. This business seems to come with big ups and big downs, so you have to be prepared for the downs at all times. If you have a shitty month, that means you won't have much coming in for at least two months... one slow month and another month waiting on NET30 accounts to come in. Meanwhile you're still paying bills, ordering material and tooling, etc. If you can't stand to eat hotdogs or cup-o-noodles for dinner once in awhile, you might want to find something else to do.

I took my first full weekend off in 3+ years a couple weeks ago. At least that's what I said I was going to do. Sat on the couch and watched a couple hours of TV, then went right back to the shop because, at this point, all I know to do is work. "Relaxing" isn't relaxing to me anymore, it's actually more stressful than anything else because I know nothing is getting accomplished in the shop. We don't have kids or needy friends, but if we did those relationships would be extremely strained on my end. My wife has just learned to do her own thing on the weekends, and we have an hour or two to catch up after work over dinner. Dinner might be served in the shop or the house, but food is food.

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The hotdogs/Ramen noodles thing brought up old memories from 20 something years ago.. Many days, all I had to eat was the 3 for a dollar roller-grill dogs from the 7-11 up the road, or if things were really bad, a pack of 7 cent Ramen noodles, heated up with a torch, while the mill and EDM were running.. Meanwhile, I had 40 to 60K in aged invoices that were 60 to 90 days past due, so some slimy CFO could cook the books to get a bigger bonus.

Mcgyver said:

if that's the case, I think you have your answer.

its night and day and for those inclined to endure it all, you're pretty much the type for whom a job is not much of an option. I don't mean to be negative, that's how i see it...needs to be a burning desire to risk everything, work all the time and put up with all the crap flung from every direction.

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It's not exactly that simple. I came damn close in the spring to getting the financing, buying a machine and getting to work... The financing didn't work out, and for now, it's probably a blessing that the timing wasn't right.

I almost wish I hadn't posted what it was that I wanted to do, but whatever.

And for the moment I'm happily employed, and thankful for it. But every day I look around a see the need for skilled help everywhere nearby. Every time I try to have some small tooling made outside because we're too busy to get around to it, no shop seems interested. Every time I talk to a vendor (all the time...) they mention so-and-so shop that needs people. So, seeing the needs of my local market, I can't help but think of filling some of that need myself, under my own employ...

Matt@RFR said:

My wife has learned the biggest lesson of all. Just because there's money in the bank doesn't mean you HAVE to spend it. This business seems to come with big ups and big downs, so you have to be prepared for the downs at all times. If you have a shitty month, that means you won't have much coming in for at least two months... one slow month and another month waiting on NET30 accounts to come in. Meanwhile you're still paying bills, ordering material and tooling, etc. If you can't stand to eat hotdogs or cup-o-noodles for dinner once in awhile, you might want to find something else to do.

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Very useful information, and something I wouldn't have even considered before spending a few years reading the Owner's/Manager's section on PM.

Matt@RFR said:

I took my first full weekend off in 3+ years a couple weeks ago. At least that's what I said I was going to do. Sat on the couch and watched a couple hours of TV, then went right back to the shop because, at this point, all I know to do is work. "Relaxing" isn't relaxing to me anymore, it's actually more stressful than anything else because I know nothing is getting accomplished in the shop. We don't have kids or needy friends, but if we did those relationships would be extremely strained on my end. My wife has just learned to do her own thing on the weekends, and we have an hour or two to catch up after work over dinner. Dinner might be served in the shop or the house, but food is food.

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However, I can't give your post a "like" because of this last paragraph. (Not that I don't appreciate the honest feedback - I sincerely do...) The family life and Church are really the only two things I'm not willing to budge on. My dad was a maintenance machinist at a "Big-3" automotive plant, and made bank... But he also worked an off-shift, and pretty much lived there. And then died 10 years ago at 47 after 2 heart attacks and 2 rounds of cancer. (Please spare me the apologies - I'm not looking for sob-story sympathies here...) My point being, making a ton of money, and no time to enjoy it, and never having the time to enjoy it with your family, is pretty much pointless. Even worse would be working one's self to death, having no money, and still no time to enjoy it. Worst yet would be working to death, no money, and no family around cause' they finally got tired of it, and went off to find another husband/dad.

So, almost from the very beginning of my career, that decision was made for me, to never let my family life "suffer" on account of work - weather it be for my employer, or my own venture.

There are also other aspects of my personal life that are driving me towards self-employment one-day... I won't touch on them for now, but I do appreciate all the honest feedback, even if it's not what I "want" to hear.

Davis In SC said:

Concerning doing machining AND training/advising/ consulting... My experience has been that people are not willing to pay a machinist for knowledge.. The general perception is that the only value a machinist has is when he is making chips. They expect us to GIVE the knowledge away.. On the other hand, I think I could make more money if I did no machining, dressed up, shaved, drove a nice car, and just did troubleshooting/ consulting. JMHO..

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Pretty much right on, on all points. My only rebuttal would be that I wouldn't offer "soley" training, but more of a value-service as well. Helping with training would be one part, sure.

But, for example, there's a reason a shop owner/manager is willing to pay a little more for carbide tools, if the rep brings more to the table than simply tools in a catalog. A good tool rep will answer your phone call way past business hours, and get to work if it means helping you along. A good tool rep will answer the phone, come visit in person, and offer his advice learned from experience on how to solve a problem, that may not even be tool-related. A good tool rep will show up at odd hours, and conduct a training session to educate your employees. A good tool rep will take your prints, help you work through them, give honest feedback, and sometimes be that spring-board to bounce ideas off of. And you're happy to pay a little more for his tools to have him around, because he brings added value to your business beyond what some catalog or website can offer...

I would want to be that guy, just maybe not for a tooling company, if you catch my drift...

If you are going to get into business you need to hock the farm sell all your toys and buy equipment and tooling.

If this bothers you you won't make it anyhow.

Biggest mistake is taking on shit work.

Any one can take on everything that comes along but it takes some nuts to turn away work when you have nothing going

On but it is essential that you can really give those good jobs everything you have the ones that fit your tooling and

Equipment.

You prolly will never make it.



How you take that is an indication of what your made of

Jashley73 said:

Pretty much right on, on all points. My only rebuttal would be that I wouldn't offer "soley" training, but more of a value-service as well. Helping with training would be one part, sure.

But, for example, there's a reason a shop owner/manager is willing to pay a little more for carbide tools, if the rep brings more to the table than simply tools in a catalog. A good tool rep will answer your phone call way past business hours, and get to work if it means helping you along. A good tool rep will answer the phone, come visit in person, and offer his advice learned from experience on how to solve a problem, that may not even be tool-related. A good tool rep will show up at odd hours, and conduct a training session to educate your employees. A good tool rep will take your prints, help you work through them, give honest feedback, and sometimes be that spring-board to bounce ideas off of. And you're happy to pay a little more for his tools to have him around, because he brings added value to your business beyond what some catalog or website can offer...

I would want to be that guy, just maybe not for a tooling company, if you catch my drift...

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Yeah, and there goes your family life along with other activities like your church involvement.

You really can't have both.

I still do software consulting and own the IP to a couple systems in active use. Phone rings from those people, I answer it, doesn't matter what else I'm doing at the time. If you say family and church come first, don't go there because something is going to give....

PDW

Having nothin to lose makes starting a business a whole lot easier. If racking up credit cards and working tons of hours is gonna be a problem dont even think about it. I have worked for myself for over 20 years but in 2008 I had to start over. 2 years ago I owed 250 thousand dollars on credit cards and bank loans, all tied to my home and all incurred while starting my new business. I made the final payment 2 days ago, I owe nothing to nobody. If you are willing to take a big risk the rewards are big but if it fails you will go down like a ton of bricks and my not ever get up again. If you have a good job and you dont mind going to work just keep the job.

Jashley73 said:

It's not exactly that simple.

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it never is, and any opinion i have after reading a paragraph is just that. Still, I find it revealing that you ask whether you should be an entrepreneur or and employee - on that you should have no question. Or you likely don't have the drive required to succeed as an entrepreneur. Had you said a financing fell through, and I tried 19 more times and it still didn't work, I've worn through two pairs of shoes pounding the pavement looking for chance 21...and then asked a question about how to get financing, I'd have had a different view.

Keep in mind being skilled in the shop is a small subset of the skills you need to run and grow a business....heck most of my guys are more skilled in the shop than I. The shop work is usually an easier skill set to hire than entrepreneurial leadership/sales/finance/marketing/accounting/commercial and so on..... so unless you really want to learn and devote yourself to those areas you might have a better balance of life and success with a good job. I like making stuff, but don't get to do much of that.

While none of the business aspects are beyond any modestly bright person, you have want to learn it to have any measure of success. IMO, whats the point of the pain if you're not at least get a shot at swinging for the fences. So one has to learn business, and much of that nonsense might not hold interest for you. You've said your happy with your employment which imo again suggests that might be the best choice for you.

I wish you luck with whatever you choose and by all means feel free to prove me wrong on the entrepreneurial thing

I think for most business owners it boils down to one thing, the burning desire to never ever work for someone else. If that doesn't exist, don't bother.

Mcgyver said:

it never is, and any opinion i have after reading a paragraph is just that. Still, I find it revealing that you ask whether you should be an entrepreneur or and employee - on that you should have no question. Or you likely don't have the drive required to succeed as an entrepreneur. Had you said a financing fell through, and I tried 19 more times and it still didn't work, I've worn through two pairs of shoes pounding the pavement looking for chance 21...and then asked a question about how to get financing, I'd have had a different view.

Keep in mind being skilled in the shop is a small subset of the skills you need to run and grow a business....heck most of my guys are more skilled in the shop than I. The shop work is usually an easier skill set to hire than entrepreneurial leadership/sales/finance/marketing/accounting/commercial and so on..... so unless you really want to learn and devote yourself to those areas you might have a better balance of life and success with a good job. I like making stuff.

While none of the business aspects are beyond any modestly bright person, you have want to learn it to have any measure of success. IMO, whats the point of the pain if you're not at least get a shot at swinging for the fences. So one has to learn business, and much of that nonsense might not hold interest for you. You've said your happy with your employment which imo again suggests that might be the best choice for you.

I wish you luck with whatever you choose and by all means feel free to prove me wrong on the entrepreneurial thing

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Love this post, thank you.

To clarify, the question at hand right now isn't so much, "Should I, am I the right kinda' guy, is this the best thing for me?, but rather the When, Where, What, Why & How am I going to do it. And getting back to the theme of the original post, "what am I going to have to sacrifice" to get there...

Still waiting to hear from a few specific members (hopefully.) As always, I appreciate all the insight - keep it coming, and thanks as always.

Quote "So, almost from the very beginning of my career, that decision was made for me, to never let my family life "suffer" on account of work - weather it be for my employer, or my own venture."




More of what you don't want to hear, I'm not doing this to be a ass. But you will not make it if you can't budge on the family and church I almost guarantee it.

Don't think shit won't go wrong think again.Two machines go down Wendsday morning not fixed till Friday afternoon and you promised parts to you're best customer Monday morning. Remember you're a one man show so the employee can't come in and do it. So what you gonna do now? Risk losing best customer maybe a fine or law suit for late delivery, or get the shit done Saturday and Sunday?

Think shit like this wont happen again a bunch more times think again it absolutely will.

You can get your business to the point you want (mostly) but you can't likely start out that way. Not very many business's in this world fit your model and the ones that might certainly are not one man machine shops.



Sources,
Started business 25 years ago sold it bought a better business, branched it out into the two business's I currently own. Also 2 year business management course. last but not least close involvement with local business's through networking watching and learning from there success and failure.

(edit) Most importantly I still don't know the half of it I'm always trying to learn.

Jeff

Sorry if I went off topic but in starting business your family life will suffer weather you want it too or not if it goes like 99.99%. So be ready to give that up.Be ready to give up everything for a year or so your life is your business for a while.

Jeff

Interesting thread, and in reading it most of the responders (like me) have the feeling that other things in your life are more important. Being a good machinist can be an asset, but it usually is not the most important.
Being unable or unwilling to work for someone else is the main driver. Over the years, I made myself unemployable. My ideas were better, I was more efficient, and I wanted to build my own designs, not someone elses. Ego is a big part of it..."I can do it better!"
All of the above is just one person's opinion, and may not reflect reality in any way. However, I now have a nice little business, debt free, money in the bank, several employees that are a pleasure to work with, and I can take off for a month on a cruise on the Mediterranean, and know that the shop and business will flow well while I am gone.
I wish you all the best, but I really suggest that you do a really deep look into your heart and honestly analyze if you have the balls to make it happen. Your wife and kid(s) will have to be very supportive, and you may not make it to very many Wednesday nite Prayer Meetings.

Lee (the saw guy)