PA Talks out both ends of the mouth...

SIM · Apr 13, 2017

Not looking for answers and I already know I'm eating this job...but anybody else ever deal with a Purchasing Agent that says one thing, writes up a PO stating same info spoke about...

AND THEN at bottom writes another Note contradicting what was said and written in Note at top of order.

Basically one surface needed to be cosmetically perfect, balance of surfaces just to size. Bottom note then specified same surface PLUS another surface to be Cosmetically perfect...

We made, both surfaces would have been perfect, but we packed side by side pretty snug to keep important surface safe and blemish free...in doing so, sides got a slight scuff, lost the finish that would have been more then acceptable.

PA used to be in a place we did lots of work for...I was sort of used to the person saying one thing and PO's coming over differently...or worded ambiguously that bit me for not questioning...not that a direct answer would have been given ie- I'd need to price jobs for stock, no rush but needed to be ready for immediate release. WTF???
Then another favorite, I need part here by end of the week, but do not send till I release. Easy enough right? It's Thursday, we need 1 day to deliver so I call, PA is not in...So, do I ship or wait for PA's release. It's the 50/50/90 Rule. That is when faced with a 50/50 bet, there is a 90% chance I'll be wrong.

It was alot of work at the time, we figured a way to get it done...that PA moved on and now get little orders here and there from where PA works. I have forgotten to read and re-re-read PO's and emails from that PA.

I'd fight this one...but too much history and although we get very little from the PA these days, that PA does give out recommendations to others...so now that my rants done, I'll go out and have parts remade.

Crap like this is why I think flipping burgers at Wendy's would be a better choice.

DDoug · Apr 13, 2017

SIM said:
Crap like this is why I think flipping burgers at Wendy's would be a better choice.

if you move to Burger King, you just take them off the conveyor broiler (they put a hopper feed
on the input side to eliminate yet another job) and slap them on a bun.... :crazy:

No standing over a hot grill and getting acne either....

However, McDonald's has the converyor soda pop dispenser.... :crazy:

The Dude · Apr 13, 2017

I get the impression that your work is note done "per print"? Out of all the ways a job shop can operate, to me, that would be the hardest. I feel for ya!

The Dude

JNieman · Apr 13, 2017

The Dude said:
I get the impression that your work is note done "per print"? Out of all the ways a job shop can operate, to me, that would be the hardest. I feel for ya!

The Dude

Unfortunately it's way too fucking common.

The Dude · Apr 13, 2017

JNieman said:
Unfortunately it's way too fucking common.

Yeah, after I wrote that I thought, that's how I buy just about everything myself! :nutter:

For one-offs, who wants to take the time to make a detailed print?

DDoug · Apr 13, 2017

The Dude said:
Yeah, after I wrote that I thought, that's how I buy just about everything myself! For one-offs, who wants to take the time to make a detailed print?

Because the "print" is a legal document, if the PA or Engineer signs it.

Larry Dickman · Apr 13, 2017

I haven't had a problem yet with a PA talking out of both sides of his mouth. All the ones I deal with can only talk out of their asses.

SIM · Apr 13, 2017

The Dude said:
I get the impression that your work is note done "per print"? Out of all the ways a job shop can operate, to me, that would be the hardest. I feel for ya!

The Dude

Yes it was to print, sort of.
Same job we have been doing for years, but now they wanted one surface blemish free. That turned into a 10 minute how I should hold and pack parts so that surface stayed pristine. PO comes over with order and a notation going over what was just gone over at nauseum. Bottom of PO has additional note starting out the same way, one surface must be pristine, blemish free then makes mention a second surface must also be free of blemishes.
Yes, my fault for not reading carefully enough right to the bottom...but geez.

JS · Apr 13, 2017

If surface finish is so important, then make the PA pick them up....

Especially, if he's a lying POS.....

Davis In SC · Apr 13, 2017

I would wrap each part in tissue paper, then bubble wrap, then a few wraps of duct tape, to assure his surfaces arrive intact this time... Let them enjoy unwrapping each one.

bmikkalson · Apr 13, 2017

Davis In SC said:
I would wrap each part in tissue paper, then bubble wrap, then a few wraps of duct tape, to assure his surfaces arrive intact this time... Let them enjoy unwrapping each one.

Hahahah . I like

Modelman · Apr 13, 2017

Davis In SC said:
I would wrap each part in tissue paper, then bubble wrap, then a few wraps of duct tape, to assure his surfaces arrive intact this time... Let them enjoy unwrapping each one.

You forgot the rice paper and dip in Cosmoline. :ack2:

Dennis

CarbideBob · Apr 14, 2017

I don't understand what "Cosmetically perfect" means. 1/8 wave like mirrors?
I'm a machinist and work in numbers. Along with it is "no nicks or scratches" .. everything has nicks and scratches at the atomic level.
Ask the PA to define such, why the added note and to define a number. Put him/her into the box.
125 or even much higher RMS turned or milled without chatter is cosmetically perfect to me as it's a nice and pretty surface and what I expected from the process.

Bondo · Apr 14, 2017

What you do is wrap the parts in tissue paper, then bubble wrap, then put a small piece of string from 1 side to the other, then wrap in painters tape, then wrap in duct tape and put on the very bottom of the packing slip instructions to pull the string to tear the tape to remove from packaging.

Now obviously this wouldn't work on duct tape, just painters tape and shrink wrap but I think they will get the hint.

If they say the packaging was horrible, all you have to do is say did you read the bottom of the packing slip for instructions....

Sent from my 2PS64 using Tapatalk

SND · Apr 14, 2017

I think the problem often is indeed people not taking the extra minute to package stuff properly, spend hours on parts, then try to save $1.00 and the few minutes it takes to pack it properly for shipping/transport so it makes it there in 1 pc with a box that isn't all ripped to hell. See it all the time.

SIM · Apr 14, 2017

This was not a shipping or packing problem, not whether we hit the mark with the provided finish. Finish was fine, we packed fine for the one surface we spoke about...

Yes I could have packed these individually in a plastic stocking and would have been fine...but had I known a second surface Needed to be perfect, I'd have run job differently too. Starting with I'd not have used a bar catcher in 1st op. Price would have went up a few cents...but again it was one surface that happened to be last op...all we needed do different was stack parts face up, pack face up...I was not charging more as it cost me nothing more. We had spoke about this, it was agreed to 1 surface.

PO said exactly what we spoke of in the lengthy description provided...all of it except down towards bottom a 2nd side is mentioned. My fault, I did not read or comprehend...It was dirt simple instructions, I was in a rush when I looked at it quickly and put PO in folder...Yup, its what we went over. I didn't read the fine print so to speak...

I could and want to make a point about the description being contradictory...I'd get paid from the company with little doubt, but highly positive I'd lose those leads I get from PA and lose the one or two lil jobs I get from them...while this ones a bust, one day they may have a blockbuster job head my way.

Dealt with PA for long time...I knew better, that's why I bang my head against the wall and decided to rant here instead of fighting a losing battle.

IntriCut · Apr 18, 2017

SIM said:
Crap like this is why I think flipping burgers at Wendy's would be a better choice.

whaa??? I make double to triple the average rate there though!!!

can you not just go somewhere else that will start you higher?

Wild West · Apr 18, 2017

SIM said:
Not looking for answers and I already know I'm eating this job...but anybody else ever deal with a Purchasing Agent that says one thing, writes up a PO stating same info spoke about...

AND THEN at bottom writes another Note contradicting what was said and written in Note at top of order.

Not much of a problem here; just don't accept the PO and tell them to correct it. It is your business, take control of it. Sorry for being so blunt.

gorrilla · Apr 19, 2017

SIM said:
Not looking for answers and I already know I'm eating this job...but anybody else ever deal with a Purchasing Agent that says one thing, writes up a PO stating same info spoke about...

AND THEN at bottom writes another Note contradicting what was said and written in Note at top of order.

Basically one surface needed to be cosmetically perfect, balance of surfaces just to size. Bottom note then specified same surface PLUS another surface to be Cosmetically perfect...

We made, both surfaces would have been perfect, but we packed side by side pretty snug to keep important surface safe and blemish free...in doing so, sides got a slight scuff, lost the finish that would have been more then acceptable.

PA used to be in a place we did lots of work for...I was sort of used to the person saying one thing and PO's coming over differently...or worded ambiguously that bit me for not questioning...not that a direct answer would have been given ie- I'd need to price jobs for stock, no rush but needed to be ready for immediate release. WTF???
Then another favorite, I need part here by end of the week, but do not send till I release. Easy enough right? It's Thursday, we need 1 day to deliver so I call, PA is not in...So, do I ship or wait for PA's release. It's the 50/50/90 Rule. That is when faced with a 50/50 bet, there is a 90% chance I'll be wrong.

It was alot of work at the time, we figured a way to get it done...that PA moved on and now get little orders here and there from where PA works. I have forgotten to read and re-re-read PO's and emails from that PA.

I'd fight this one...but too much history and although we get very little from the PA these days, that PA does give out recommendations to others...so now that my rants done, I'll go out and have parts remade.

Crap like this is why I think flipping burgers at Wendy's would be a better choice.

Saw an ad hanging ON THE DOOR at the local Whataburger the other day, offering $11/hr to start. I thought to my self, "Self? You wouldn't have to worry about anything except getting to work on time, and doing a simple job." No insurance to keep track of, no workman's comp paperwork, no dealing with idiot PAs or sales people, no dealing with less than qualified employees, NONE of the headaches, just a paycheck. So, the question that I finally rendered out of that is, how much of a raise would that be? Still haven't got that one yet, but....

SIM · Apr 24, 2017

Wild West said:
Not much of a problem here; just don't accept the PO and tell them to correct it. It is your business, take control of it. Sorry for being so blunt.

Blunt is fine.

Don't accept and correct...

But that's the point, "IF" I saw the contradictory instruction in the PO I'd have taken control.

BUT as we spoke about "1" surface ad nauseam followed by a typed description and 2 notations all seemingly saying the same One, Single, Solitary, Particular, Sole Surface repeated in every way imaginable, I think I dosed off at the end of confirming order where it mentions an additional surface "B".

I do need to say I honestly Do Not believe this was done to sneak in more work for same money or to cause me grief, but something that was sort of realized after all was said and done. Been here, done this before with this very same PA....just the way it works. And after reading that PO with statement highlighted...it all came back to me and remembered the ambiguous nature of the orders and my need to really watch my hide as it would always come back to bite me.

PA Talks out both ends of the mouth...

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