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Shops holding "Job Fairs" = high turnover ?

DDoug

Diamond
Joined
Oct 18, 2005
Location
NW Pa
Recently a small shop has been advertising heavily on T.V.
and newsprint, having a "Job Fair", and how their work
"Goes into space".

I see some shops having a permanent sign out front "Help wanted".

I suspect these shops don't pay well, and have high turnover.

Yes/No ?
 
I don't know what I would do if I had the potential to grow immensely

Actual skilled labor is hard to find, and yes hard to keep.

Companies tend to grow in a linear fashion, get another Haas with another guy in front of it, buy another horizontal band saw with a guy running it to cut the stock, get another kid on the burr bench. Other places buy a pallet changer, automatic saw, tumbler......

they could be jerks or they could be busy
 
Little off trades but my auto mechanic is about 55 years old and is "old schooled" when it comes to fixing cars. He has been trying to hire people to do the new electronics of the cars like diagnosis and repairs. He has tried to hire people right out of big wig tech schools and even from bug time dealerships. He runs into 2 problems, either they can't do their job worth crap, or they are fantastic at doing only 1 thing.

So he has had a sign out front for a few years now. He tried starting people off at $30 hr. He says most people only last a day.

Also... He has been in business for 30 years and has 5 employees.

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Kind of a big stretch to assume, I'd think.
That is assuming high employee turnover based on advertising and doing job fairs.


Could be the shops have a well oiled machine in place ready to take on more work using those methods mentioned to promote additional work possibilities. I say possibilities as if your in a good spot you have learned to say NO to those jobs that become the wrench in the gears.

If you have your processes down, tooling set and ready, material on the rack...AND good people working together its amazing how much work can be processed correctly. Good quality work going out the door regularly allows room to pay employees well, pay for advertising and can make for good moral, so why would there be a big employee turnover?

Flip side...shop needs work and the work they have is being done by cheap help so it does not go out right. The work they CAN get is the work they do..whether a good fit for them or not. Nobody is making money, works coming back wrong, not going out...tensions are high. That makes for high turn over. Also leaves little money in the coffers to advertise for work...but maybe a last ditch effort.

In short...I needed a quick mind break before getting back to work and I really could not assume anything about the turnover rate of a shop based on job fairs and advertising.
 
An always-present "help wanted" sign wouldn't turn me off. I've said on here before - there's not a "shortage" of machinists now, there's a high-powered sucking "vacuum" of machinists. Every manufacturing business needs more machinists right now, and every machinist worth their salt is already working in a job. It's a bad time to be looking for a machinist. It's a good time to BE a machinists...

The place with the always present "help wanted" sign could be a shady outfit that burns through people, or it could be a really well-run, great business that recognizes they need to be always on the lookout for skilled people, and snatch them up & make a place for them when the opportunity comes about. A quick stroll through the parking lot, to examine the age & condition of the employee's vehicles, is a pretty good litmus test to sort the place out...

The well-run shop with the "help-wanted" sign, is simply employing some "right place at the right time thinking." (I'm thinking about motionguru & his outfit here...) The well-run, turn-key automation shop that's always eager to add more talent - they're the "right place" looking for the "right person" and ready to pounce when the "right time" finally comes about. The "help wanted" sign just helps bring in the curious folk, in hopes they're the "right person."


The "Job Fair" would be a turn-off for me though. Especially having worked at a place that frequented job fairs, and had extremely high turnover. These places are like the "clinically insane" person, trying the same thing over & over, and expecting a different result "this time." Ain't gonna' happen. It's not the people they're bringing in - something else is broken. That something else simply amplifies the tendency to bring in the wrong people - who quickly leave. It's a downward spiral from there.
 
Not so much about jobs fair but high turnover. The shop that I am doing some consulting work for has high turnover and it's normally a 4 or 5 man shop. He's been in business for over thirty years and has always had this problem.He has fairly new cnc machines and crappy bridgeport clones. He doesn't skimp on tooling, either. The last guy he hired, I had been around him on his first two days and knew he wasn't going to make it. He had no clue on how to day anything by himself. He came from a bigger company where all had to do was push a button.
Now to the problems.
Number 1.
The owner micromanages everything. I told him if they spent as much time making the parts as they did talking about making the parts they would come way ahead.
Number 2.
The owner can be an asshole about 90% of the time.
Number 3.
He takes in more work than he can do. Constantly fighting time frames and late deliveries. Makes for a pretty frenetic workplace.I would never book more 90%. Gives you a little time for the uh-ohs that always show their heads.
Number 4.
Good machinists that know what shortcuts work and which ones don't, ones that you can hand a print to and don't have to tell them a thing and get a good part back are just no longer available All the tech schools are putting out nowadays are button pushers.
Out of the 4 problems listed above, number 4 is the only one I do not blame on him.
 
Recently a small shop has been advertising heavily on T.V.
and newsprint, having a "Job Fair", and how their work
"Goes into space".

I see some shops having a permanent sign out front "Help wanted".

I suspect these shops don't pay well, and have high turnover.

Yes/No ?

We did a job fair years ago. Most calls we received about the Job Fair was "What are you serving for lunch?" or "Are you serving lunch?". We used that as part of our de-selection process.

I guess I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of "they don't pay well and have high turnover". We are in growth mode. Currently employ 97 people and could use another 20+ to support or growth profile projected for the next 3 years. We have a billboard on the freeway, run ads 24-7, have recruiters and we are having success but the pool of skilled fabricators is dwindling.

We pay above market average, have a nice clean air conditioned shop. Our tenure runs deep with at least 60% of the people here having 10 years in with us. 28% go back to the first year we started the business in 1997. Turnover is not an issue at all.

An hour ago they had a meeting with all the new hires in the past 6 months as part of their onboarding process and they all had nothing but good things to say about the company (keep in mind as an owner I stay out of those meetings and I want people to be honest so we can improve). 4 of 6 asked to get on our Career Path Development Process where they can learn, reach milestones and get compensated accordingly to their skill level they develop.

And we are thinking about having another Job Fair...not because of turnover...because we need people!!!
 
many shops are picky and looking for people with specific skills and experiences and not letting others try that might need some training.
.
i got a job i needed a month of one on one training on a mazak as i never ran one before. 2nd month training the trainer was sitting down reading the newspaper 99.9% of time. 3rd month trainer was assigned another machine to run.
.
just saying many shops wont even give people a chance that could do job with some training. when i hear somebody not lasting a week i would ask why not train the guy for a month or 2. fairly normal after 90 days a decision is made to permanently hire or not.
.
then there is older guy applying for 30 jobs and only getting 3 replies which i believe is mostly just age discrimination.
.
my wife applied for dog walker job and doesnt hear back on it. like she aint qualified to walk a dog? i suspect they dont like her name.
 
many shops are picky and looking for people with specific skills and experiences and not letting others try that might need some training.
.
i got a job i needed a month of one on one training on a mazak as i never ran one before. 2nd month training the trainer was sitting down reading the newspaper 99.9% of time. 3rd month trainer was assigned another machine to run.
.
just saying many shops wont even give people a chance that could do job with some training. when i hear somebody not lasting a week i would ask why not train the guy for a month or 2. fairly normal after 90 days a decision is made to permanently hire or not.
.
then there is older guy applying for 30 jobs and only getting 3 replies which i believe is mostly just age discrimination.
.
my wife applied for dog walker job and doesnt hear back on it. like she aint qualified to walk a dog? i suspect they dont like her name.

As a young corn raised mostly white kid from the Midwest it isn't age, name, or anything else most of the time. Very few jobs that I have applied for from minimum wage positions as a kid to engineering roles post college actually send out rejections. At least 90% of the time nothing is heard back.
Having done some hiring at a previous position I always let applicants we had interviewed (phone and in person) know when the position had filled, but responding to the zillion resumes (many unqualified, but sometimes just too many) that we received from HR definitely did not happen.
 
Not so much about jobs fair but high turnover. The shop that I am doing some consulting work for has high turnover and it's normally a 4 or 5 man shop. He's been in business for over thirty years and has always had this problem.He has fairly new cnc machines and crappy bridgeport clones. He doesn't skimp on tooling, either. The last guy he hired, I had been around him on his first two days and knew he wasn't going to make it. He had no clue on how to day anything by himself. He came from a bigger company where all had to do was push a button.
Now to the problems.
Number 1.
The owner micromanages everything. I told him if they spent as much time making the parts as they did talking about making the parts they would come way ahead.
Number 2.
The owner can be an asshole about 90% of the time.
Number 3.
He takes in more work than he can do. Constantly fighting time frames and late deliveries. Makes for a pretty frenetic workplace.I would never book more 90%. Gives you a little time for the uh-ohs that always show their heads.
Number 4.
Good machinists that know what shortcuts work and which ones don't, ones that you can hand a print to and don't have to tell them a thing and get a good part back are just no longer available All the tech schools are putting out nowadays are button pushers.
Out of the 4 problems listed above, number 4 is the only one I do not blame on him.


Did tech schools ever put out fully trained journeyman machinist?
When I went to school the machining teacher made it very clear to us that we would not leave his class experienced machinist. He said that the best he could do was teach us some basic knowledge so we could get our foot in the door somewhere and not embarrass our selves.
 
Did tech schools ever put out fully trained journeyman machinist?
When I went to school the machining teacher made it very clear to us that we would not leave his class experienced machinist. He said that the best he could do was teach us some basic knowledge so we could get our foot in the door somewhere and not embarrass our selves.

I never said anything about journeymen machinist. Getting your foot in the door is basically how most guys get their 1st job. How long ago were you in tech school?
 
Not so much about jobs fair but high turnover. The shop that I am doing some consulting work for has high turnover and it's normally a 4 or 5 man shop. He's been in business for over thirty years and has always had this problem.He has fairly new cnc machines and crappy bridgeport clones. He doesn't skimp on tooling, either. The last guy he hired, I had been around him on his first two days and knew he wasn't going to make it. He had no clue on how to day anything by himself. He came from a bigger company where all had to do was push a button.
Now to the problems.
Number 1.
The owner micromanages everything. I told him if they spent as much time making the parts as they did talking about making the parts they would come way ahead.
Number 2.
The owner can be an asshole about 90% of the time.
Number 3.
He takes in more work than he can do. Constantly fighting time frames and late deliveries. Makes for a pretty frenetic workplace.I would never book more 90%. Gives you a little time for the uh-ohs that always show their heads.
Number 4.
Good machinists that know what shortcuts work and which ones don't, ones that you can hand a print to and don't have to tell them a thing and get a good part back are just no longer available All the tech schools are putting out nowadays are button pushers.
Out of the 4 problems listed above, number 4 is the only one I do not blame on him.

Sounds like the guy I work for to a T.
 
We are hiring.... and doing job fairs.......and advertising on radio.......and everything else ...... Our turnover ratio is low, benefits are pretty good and pay is competitive. Finding competent people is a huge issue.

The numbers look something like this......
Bring in 100 people.....
25% of those fail the math / reading pre-employment test
down to 75
Send 75 to drug screen....... 40 flunk that
down to 35
initiate the background check on those 35, 25 of those come back with issues
down to 10,
3 of those will decide "this just isn't for me" and leave within the first month.
2 more won't be able to get out of bed and get to work on time every day and be terminated within 2 months for absenteeism.
Down to 5
Needed to fill 50 spots.........
 
We are hiring.... and doing job fairs.......and advertising on radio.......and everything else ...... Our turnover ratio is low, benefits are pretty good and pay is competitive. Finding competent people is a huge issue.

The numbers look something like this......
Bring in 100 people.....
25% of those fail the math / reading pre-employment test
down to 75
Send 75 to drug screen....... 40 flunk that
down to 35
initiate the background check on those 35, 25 of those come back with issues
down to 10,
3 of those will decide "this just isn't for me" and leave within the first month.
2 more won't be able to get out of bed and get to work on time every day and be terminated within 2 months for absenteeism.
Down to 5
Needed to fill 50 spots.........

.
i lost job when old company declared bankruptcy and they emptied a building to sell. my new job i got cause the last guy hired they make him take a drug test and he fails it.
.
they hire me even though not experienced on mazaks cause i can pass drug test and wanted to learn and wanted a job.
 
night school

i took night school cnc courses and often companies had job postings on a bulletin board or asked teacher to let students know about jobs.
.
class was full of 25 to 65 year old people interested to learn cnc machining. now a days bulletin board is online through college. many people want training they might know they will loose job in 1 to 10 years and are just taking classes to help find the next job
 
DMF_TomB;3143991 i got a job i needed a month of one on one training on a mazak as i never ran one before. 2nd month training the trainer was sitting down reading the newspaper 99.9% of time. 3rd month trainer was assigned another machine to run.[/QUOTE said:
Hire a guy and you can tell if they are on the ball by the questions they ask and the ones they don't ask. When you explain something and they get it...or most of it...Yes, indeed it pays to train those people.


DMF_TomB;3143991 . just saying many shops wont even give people a chance that could do job with some training. when i hear somebody not lasting a week i would ask why not train the guy for a month or 2. fairly normal after 90 days a decision is made to permanently hire or not. . [/QUOTE said:
Some training...yes if just some training it may pay to train. But some people let you know early on they are not going much further and it can be best to cut your losses sooner rather then later.
Have you ever tried explaining,teaching something to someone who has asked you a question...they stop you midway and start asking a totally unrelated question or they ask you exactly what you just explained.
How about when they pass a bad part...it's close enough, they say. Yes you can explain once "We do not do that here"...2nd time we know we are wasting our time with training.
Yes...the door can be shown in less then a week.
Then of course poor attitude..attendance, lateness...making same mistake over and over again...
 
Hire a guy and you can tell if they are on the ball by the questions they ask and the ones they don't ask. When you explain something and they get it...or most of it...Yes, indeed it pays to train those people.





Some training...yes if just some training it may pay to train. But some people let you know early on they are not going much further and it can be best to cut your losses sooner rather then later.
Have you ever tried explaining,teaching something to someone who has asked you a question...they stop you midway and start asking a totally unrelated question or they ask you exactly what you just explained.
How about when they pass a bad part...it's close enough, they say. Yes you can explain once "We do not do that here"...2nd time we know we are wasting our time with training.
Yes...the door can be shown in less then a week.
Then of course poor attitude..attendance, lateness...making same mistake over and over again...

Then you have the guys that already know it all............. IMHO, that is the worst of the worst.

Boss was interviewing prospective engineers at a college job fair couple weeks ago. Asked the old standard two-part question of "a. What are your biggest strengths" to which he received an answer, and follow that up with part b: "and conversely, what is your biggest weakness?"....... to which he receive the reply of "I have no weaknesses."............. which resulted in .............

The END of the interview process for this young man.

A hint to any college grads or grads to be out there... you may be graduating college, but you don't know squat yet. Best be humble and admit that. If you even think schooling is done when you graduate it would behoove you to sit down and think about that subject long and hard. The learning curve once you get into a place of employment is typically _very_ steep.

It now it isn't an internship or co-op where you were considered a student, they now expect an ROI out of your employment and life gets real and it gets real in a hurry. Fact of life is that your employment is no different than the purchase of a piece of capital equipment. They expect to see a return on investment from you greater than your salary - period.
 
many shops are picky and looking for people with specific skills and experiences and not letting others try that might need some training.
.
i got a job i needed a month of one on one training on a mazak as i never ran one before. 2nd month training the trainer was sitting down reading the newspaper 99.9% of time. 3rd month trainer was assigned another machine to run.
.
just saying many shops wont even give people a chance that could do job with some training. when i hear somebody not lasting a week i would ask why not train the guy for a month or 2. fairly normal after 90 days a decision is made to permanently hire or not.
.
then there is older guy applying for 30 jobs and only getting 3 replies which i believe is mostly just age discrimination.
.
my wife applied for dog walker job and doesnt hear back on it. like she aint qualified to walk a dog? i suspect they dont like her name.

The place that I retired from is a very highly automated high tech machining factory. Our management had the opinion that if you were a tool and diemaker you should be able to walk up to anything in the plant and repair it. It just doesn't always work that way. Sometimes you need to have some of the automation explained to you or you do more harm than good. But management. They always know better don't they.
 








 
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