Trade language, correct designations, do you care? - Page 3
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  1. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by RJT View Post
    The only thing I have trouble with are terms like "real accurate" or "close tolerance" or "good finish" , they can mean anything. Give me a definitive answer like within .0005" or .002 TIR, or 16 ra finish.
    as a Quality Tech it bothers me quite a bit when people don't know the difference between resolution and accuracy of an instrument, or use precision in the place of accuracy. It happens a lot and is a sure sign their measuring knowledge and skills are sub standard.
    That said, I am also that guy who uses alt keys to type stuff like Ø5.000 ±.005 or 16 µin (that IS a good finish! lol) in emails, so I might be a bit on the picky side


    edit: To clarify intention, I learned from day one in metrology class that inspection reports are legal documents and there can be no room for interpretation.
    If you fill out a document on the job it is altogether possible that both you and the document will make court appearances together. 10 years from now somebody reading it needs to know exactly what you mean, long after you are there to exchange lingo.

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  3. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    One other thing here to add to this thread as far as I am concerned if you are in Germany and are in need of a good technical English dictionary for industrial terminology www.mcmaster.com may as well be the Mirriam Webster gold standard for terms and names of industrial parts and pieces. Not only do they maintain some of the best general knowledge base up there but they even offer simple to navigate English to picture translation if English isn't your first language.

    On another interesting side note near me is a company ASML I believe they are Dutch, one of the guys I work with used to be a draftsman there and he was saying the desire there was to be able to make parts anywhere in the world they needed to make them. As such they strictly banned the use of any written notes on drawings. All call outs were to be strictly in ISO standard GD&T type notations, so as to leave no room for anything getting lost in translation. I gather he said that such thing was very common all thru out Europe as there are so many different langues over there that notes would never work. Do notes get used a lot on German drawings, (prints or what ever the heck the technical term is for them)?

    Contrary opinion:
    McMaster's website is very good but hardly the gold standard for terms and name. I'm chronically finding short comings in the search function. It's good but, after 20+ years of them shoving it down our throats, it's far from 100%, IMO.


    Regarding drawing notes, how does one eliminate a note such as "REMOVE ALL BURRS AND BREAK SHARP EDGES .010R MAX"?

  4. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by 3Dscan View Post
    as a Quality Tech it bothers me quite a bit when people don't know the difference between resolution and accuracy of an instrument, or use precision in the place of accuracy. It happens a lot and is a sure sign their measuring knowledge and skills are sub standard.
    That said, I am also that guy who uses alt keys to type stuff like Ø5.000 ±.005 or 16 µin (that IS a good finish! lol) in emails, so I might be a bit on the picky side
    Nope You sound as if you are a member of the "Common Sense Club".

    I deal with customers all over the world and many do not have English as a first language. Either they don't always understand me or me them. If I'm in doubt I never hesitate to ask. When a potential customer can't or won't answer a pertinent question then the warning lights blink. I have said "No thanks" to more than a couple.

    In a way it's similar to thinking that a company having an ISO 9001 certificate guarantees quality

  5. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by 9100 View Post


    We also have a problem with the term "Hoosier", which is a proud name the people in Indiana give themselves whereas in this area it denotes a lower form of life that infests Southern Missouri, Northern Arkansas and Western Kentucky. They are somewhat related to Hillbillys but considered to be lower on the evolutionary ladder. If you have seen the movie "Million Dollar Baby", Hillary Swank's family were hoosiers.

    Bill
    As explained to me by a guy whose wife was from Indiana. Derogatory use: "Do you know Hoosier dad?"

    Around here we have an inbred family group locals call Yayloos. Four surnames, family tree is basically a stump. Collective IQ of entire group is less than 30.

  6. #45
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    This device sounds suspiciously like the turboencabulator... Turboencabulator - Wikipedia
    Quote Originally Posted by wheels17 View Post
    The recharacterization of common words to specialized meanings in narrow fields is very interesting as well. I'm sure every word in this paragraph has clear meaning to the general public, but the paragraph is meaningless to all but a very limited community. Within the community, it is concise and clear.

    The very first hijacked term (dope) brought about some funny looks when discussed in public. It refers to a solvent solution of a plastic, and ties in with the "airplane dopes" used for fabric covered airplanes. The paragraph describes a bad day at my old job.

    The dope in system 31 was contaminated by a leak in the fixed slot cooler and created a rash of slugs at the same time the 7th sub drum head caused cinches. The jet also had clear spots and BB lines. The paper clip friction was low. The softness was fine, but the removability was poor. Only one area was standard grade fine. Curl and residuals were ok. The stone crusher was starting to develop issues causing crosslines. Lowering the mica baffle had no effect. Lowering the Q baffle increased the vacuum and made the crosslines action grade, but made the bullseyes worse.

  7. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eric M View Post
    This device sounds suspiciously like the turboencabulator... Turboencabulator - Wikipedia
    The Wiki article neglects to mention that the most efficient encabulators, both turbo and retro, are powered by resublimated thiotimoline. Its use allows the encabulator to shift losses into the future, making it nearly perfectly efficient in real time.

    http://www.e-reading.club/chapter.ph..._Volume_3.html

    A new model in under development that allows the shift into Klingon Bird of Prey engines, giving Federation Starships a speed advantage. There is an attitude in The Academy that such a device is the product of a warped mind.

    Bill

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  9. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by adammil1 View Post
    Do notes get used a lot on German drawings, (prints or what ever the heck the technical term is for them)?
    I have a buck load of client drawings with notations on them. Through time and a lot of google translate you get used to glass being called "vitrage" on french drawings etc. although one of our German clients uses a lot of notations in plain German on their drawings. Have fun banging your head against the wall for at least couple of hours deciphering what "sichtflachen. her alle nachte bzw....." means on that "blechrahmen" drawing and translating all of the corresponding documentation to understandable language to whoever on the floor is working on it. It's really no notations at all, maybe two or three in English on an assembly or notations all over the drawings in French, German, Swedish, Danish, whatever the native language of the client may be. Notations on paint and grinding are the worst.

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    Quote Originally Posted by anht View Post
    one of our German clients uses a lot of notations in plain German on their drawings. Have fun banging your head against the wall for at least couple of hours deciphering what "sichtflachen. her alle nachte bzw....." means on that "blechrahmen" drawing and translating all of the corresponding documentation to understandable language ...
    If they are German electrical prints, just throw the damned things away and figure it out yourself. One page high by fifty miles wide, who in the hell thought that up ? Some shop with a huge surplus of toilet paper ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by SeaMoss View Post
    If they are German electrical prints, just throw the damned things away and figure it out yourself. One page high by fifty miles wide, who in the hell thought that up ? Some shop with a huge surplus of toilet paper ?
    We have A LOT of electrical prints, however I don't bother even a bit with them, the whole nerve wrecking experience with the mechanical assemblies and welds is enough. Just execute the welds etc. according to the print and common sense to check if visible welds should be grinded or not, if it's a medical product look for "grinding direction", generally it's more useful to know the purpose of said device, if it's going to be sand blasted, painted or whatever to get a general idea of how it has to turn out than notations on a drawing. Worst case scenario you get a non conformity form and say "oops, we did not understand the writings on your drawing, we will mind this or that the next time" and get it right on the second PO

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    My basic training was in electronics and I find machinery electrical drawings frustrating. For example, in an electronic drawing, a relay has a coil that looks like a coil and a dotted line connects it to all its contacts. A line to line drawing has a coil that looks like a resistor and contacts that look like capacitors, which may be anywhere, so you have to search for them. Make the notes in a different language with some European symbology and I am really unhappy.

    Bill

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    I know a mechanical engineer and he calls .100" incriments​ "tenths". I almost fell out of my chair when he asked for some 3" aluminum parts turned to a tolerance of half a "tenth".

    Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

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    How can any seasoned ME do tenths as 0.1 inch? Maybe a first 3-6 month kid but....
    I hope you did help educate him/her gracefully that the phase "of an inch" needs to be added and why the part maker has a very different "tenth".

    To the op's call for "right" is plus minus 2 tenths a correct technical term or designation?
    Point oh, oh, oh, two does not flow off the tongue so well yet a tenth inch is 0.1000 so your ME is technically right and your interpretation of 0.0001 is just wrong on many levels.

    One has to understand the goal of the speaker, and clarify if needed.
    Why is that so hard that we need all things spoken or written in our terms?
    If you have the brains God gave a rock you know the terms or increments do not fit your would and simply ask.
    WTF is bad about making sure we are all on the same page? Has the computer world reduced us to idiots?
    Bob

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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    Has the computer world reduced us to idiots?
    Bob
    No, but it has made it a lot easier for them to stand out.

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  18. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by CarbideBob View Post
    To the op's call for "right" is plus minus 2 tenths a correct technical term
    Bob,
    I have learned that any number without a unit is wrong and wil introduce errors at a time somewhere. I have heard stories of expensive errors in industry from both using the wrong units (mm vs cm) or even the wrong system (metric vs imperial)
    That's why I check sketches and drawings for explicit units or I will ask for a revision.

    Once a Smith I know received a detailed drawing from a carpenter for a part. When he made it he didn't understand what it should be. When the carpenter came to pick it up he said it was way to small. This is what had happened:
    Carpenters over here are used to measuring in cm thus the carpenter assumed this to be obvious so he didn't include the unit on the drawing. Metalworkers are used to working in mm, so the Smith assumed the measurements to be mm because no units were mentioned and produced a perfect 1:10 scale model. One simple line " all measurements in cm" on the drawing would have prevented this from happening.

    In my opinion "2 tenth of a thousands inch" would be correct or "2 tenth of an inch"
    No opportunity for confusion. Maybe if the measurement is explicitly in inch the inch doesn't have to be repeated for tolerances. I only use metric, but I would never ommit the "of a thousands" part. It would either be 2 tenth of a millimetre or 2 tenthousands of a millimetre. No confusion possible. And if everyone would make a habit of this it would become automatic and would be a very small effort.
    You never know what assumptions someone will make and you WILL get cought.

    Peter

    P.s. i have found that people from the USA often call out a temperature in numbers only. When watching YouTube it is not always obvious where one lives imagine the confusion when the temperature of a liquid is called out as "100". C or F?
    I know, it could be K too. (Or rabbits ;-) )

  19. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodBee View Post
    In my opinion "2 tenth of a thousands inch" would be correct or "2 tenth of an inch"
    No opportunity for confusion. Maybe if the measurement is explicitly in inch the inch doesn't have to be repeated for tolerances. I only use metric, but I would never ommit the "of a thousands" part...
    Couldn't agree more. Using "tenth" for shorthand for .0001" is pervasive in the tool shop, but when one gets out in the wider world, can cause problems. Since I can't be responsible for what a million machinists say, I just make sure I always say, "one tenth of an inch" or "one hundred thousandths" depending how far into the trade the listener is.

    Dennis

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    The proper term is a password to a result, a culture, a bulwark against confusion.

    Context is essential. Say you’re in a water treatment plant, and overhear “take a look at this Schmutz”.

    Let’s discuss...

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    Quote Originally Posted by WoodBee View Post
    P.s. i have found that people from the USA often call out a temperature in numbers only. When watching YouTube it is not always obvious where one lives imagine the confusion when the temperature of a liquid is called out as "100". C or F?
    I know, it could be K too. (Or rabbits ;-) )
    I thought when it came to weather that the whole world out side of the USA did that and just assumed we all knew it was in deg C. The other day we were on the phone discussing our trip to Singapore to setup some new equipment with the local engineers. After a long stretch of weather in the 0 to -5degF range things had warmed up to the 30's. So when we mentioned things were back up to the 30's Singapore said ok, you guys are about the same as low 30's that it is pretty warm over here.

    Then we realized we had our units off a little!


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