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Wanting to start a small shop, common question I'm sure, advice appreciated!

RevK

Plastic
Joined
Sep 22, 2016
So my background. I'm 28 years old, The job i just left I was the Mold tooling shop manager. Im a mechanical designer and machine programmer. In my three years at the shop i learned so much working with top notch machinist. Well i left for greener pastures, now i program a waterjet... make some fixtures and what not. but its all production machines, really nice ones, but i don't do much with them. I miss a job shop, i miss machinist, i miss learning and here, i just realized how much i miss working around conventional and cnc machines, never the same part twice, always a challenge. Learning all the ins and outs of the equipment, having intimate knowledge of all its inner workings ( Fadals... so they were disassembled every day! lol:D ).

So long story long. I feel drawn to a job shop and i want to try to work some on my own. this is in its infancy so its actually seeing if i can swing it. I guess my real question for yall is, as owners of shops big and small. What was the biggest hurdle? what would you want to do differently, What matters the most in the early days?

I'm still trying to see if its feasible, but i've always known i belong running my own business. And i love designing and making parts, prototyping. so.. ill turn it over to yall! Thanks for taking the time!
 
While your still employed I'd start building up an inventory of machines before venturing out into the great unknown. My minimum machine inventory would be
4020 (or larger) size VMC (FADAL or similar $10-$25k in good shape)
16x40 (or so) manual lathe ($3k-$8K)
Bridgeport with DRO ($2k-$4k)
CNC lathe (mori seiki sl3 or similar)($4k-$10k)
24x36 surface plate
mics/bore mics/height gages etc
angle plates etc

If you had the space it would also be nice to have
Hardinge HLV-H or monarch 10EE
Sunnen Hone
EDM sinker
EDM wire
Surface grinder
id/od grinder

Good luck!
 
Biggest hurdle:
Finding reliable, honest customers.

What you can expect:
You will pretty much have to set EVERYTHING in your life to the side for a couple years. And focus entirely on work.
Don't quit your day-job.
Unless you have enough money in the bank to buy whatever equipment you need, and pay ALL your bills for at minimum one year?
You will need that paycheck.
Which puts you working a minimum of 80hrs a week.
When I first started my shop I had to learn real fast how to operate on about 4 hours of sleep per night.
Sometimes, less. Sometimes, none! I worked every single day for two years. I think in the first two years there was a total of 3 days I did not work.

You have left way too many blanks for anybody to give you solid advice.
My first question: where do you plan to start this venture?
 
Don't quit your day-job.

Very important! I had a regular job and a shop in parallel for years, there were months when the side work was slow or non-existant. As all the machines were paid for, and shop rent wasn't too expensive I could survive ok on the regular job income. plus had the additional benefit of med insurance, 401k etc. On the other hand having a regular job will hinder your ability to grow. It's hard to find a happy medium.
 
I am unable to advise you on your query.
I would advise you to supply the necessary information to enable PM members to assist you.
I would advise you to supply minimal personal information, especially anything which might enable you to be identified.

Not very helpful if your customers, potential customers, former customers who might become customers again, or in your case current employer, discovers your opinions and intentions.

If you consider this a valid comment and are intending to use PM regularly maybe you should get yourself another PM ID for future posts.

Best of luck.
 
Biggest hurdle:
Finding reliable, honest customers.

What you can expect:
You will pretty much have to set EVERYTHING in your life to the side for a couple years. And focus entirely on work.
Don't quit your day-job.
Unless you have enough money in the bank to buy whatever equipment you need, and pay ALL your bills for at minimum one year?
You will need that paycheck.
Which puts you working a minimum of 80hrs a week.
When I first started my shop I had to learn real fast how to operate on about 4 hours of sleep per night.
Sometimes, less. Sometimes, none! I worked every single day for two years. I think in the first two years there was a total of 3 days I did not work.

You have left way too many blanks for anybody to give you solid advice.
My first question: where do you plan to start this venture?

I was expecting long hours and working my day job, which seems to be the most common remark in this thread so far.

Yea, definitely don't have the money to just up and finance my shop. So equipment purchase is one of the biggest parts of the equation that comes up blank. Am i supposed to just save up and buy a piece at a time?!?!? is it common to do equip financing? I would imagine that's a whole other large part, financing terms are surly different for machines and Equip.

I would never expect it to be easy.

What should i need to specify to help? and i live in Virginia.
 
I am unable to advise you on your query.
I would advise you to supply the necessary information to enable PM members to assist you.
I would advise you to supply minimal personal information, especially anything which might enable you to be identified.

Not very helpful if your customers, potential customers, former customers who might become customers again, or in your case current employer, discovers your opinions and intentions.

If you consider this a valid comment and are intending to use PM regularly maybe you should get yourself another PM ID for future posts.

Best of luck.


I understand putting information out that might suggest a feeling about a current employer, i do not have an intention to up and leave my job, but to start something on the side that could one day evolve into something. So i appreciate your concern. As for an alternate PM ID, i think this one will remain as current, i don't feel i will say or do something that could become a conflict of interest, especially as i have zero desire to be making or doing anything close to the product the company i work for offers.
 
You might examine the area and your experience to find the niche to get started and perhaps that first steady part to pay the rent.
Can’t just go and spend 30 to 100k and then start looking for the first job.

QT: [Mold tooling shop manager] what in that field can you service or make, what wold be needed to make a part in that field, what did you have trouble finding.
 
No personal experience, but looking at others I'd say don't underestimate the amount of time you'll spend marketing yourself and your shop, handling purchasing of materials and tooling and generally keeping track of all the usual business details. Don't expect to have much time left to do the things you think you're going into business to do. You'll end up hiring somebody for those things.
 
QT: [Mold tooling shop manager] what in that field can you service or make, what wold be needed to make a part in that field, what did you have trouble finding.

The company i worked for was in manufacturing, they had a nice tool room and then a CNC shop. So most of the equipment they serviced was all in house. If we had something that didn't work or broke, it was simply made there if it could be. Lots of fixtures, lots of machine components that were too costly to buy every time they broke.
 
Sadly, no, very little.. maybe a couple of junky spots. Im semi familiar with the equipment... less so on its operation. Lol
 
Yea, definitely don't have the money to just up and finance my shop. So equipment purchase is one of the biggest parts of the equation that comes up blank. Am i supposed to just save up and buy a piece at a time?!?!? is it common to do equip financing? I would imagine that's a whole other large part, financing terms are surly different for machines and Equip.

I paid cash money for all my machines tooling etc, I was in the right place for some real good deals, in the wrong place for a few others. The first time I had to ever borrow money was to buy a FADAL, 1/2 from my mom , 1/2 from a friend . Until you get established and running full time, I think it would be a big mistake to finance any machines.
 
I paid cash money for all my machines tooling etc, I was in the right place for some real good deals, in the wrong place for a few others. The first time I had to ever borrow money was to buy a FADAL, 1/2 from my mom , 1/2 from a friend . Until you get established and running full time, I think it would be a big mistake to finance any machines.

I could see easily getting drill presses, grinders, cutters, etc .. but milling and turn machines seem like short term financing items. I've followed a lot of fadals before on eBay and online machine resellers. 3016s, 4020s, I get it a 10-20k minimum for a used in moderate shape boxway, but i still couldn't just drop cash down.
 
I could see easily getting drill presses, grinders, cutters, etc .. but milling and turn machines seem like short term financing items. I've followed a lot of fadals before on eBay and online machine resellers. 3016s, 4020s, I get it a 10-20k minimum for a used in moderate shape boxway, but i still couldn't just drop cash down.

Time to start saving your $'s, live cheaply with a goal in mind, save as much as you can. This could be the start of the rest of your life. It's not going to be easy though. I'd go back to a regular job in a heart beat right now, but at 57 nobodies hiring.

If your married and thinking of starting a family, maybe put that off a few years, or if your not married avoid getting the GF pregnant.

If you look around there's deals, a FADAL 1998 went for $13k locally, apparently in great condition, Mori SL's for cheap, same with BP's and lathes if your patient. Save $20k then start looking for machines. My first shop was in an appartement single garage, phase converter,Bridgeport and lathe. Made some good money there, then 680 sq ft, now 1500 sq ft, 2500 sq ft soon (I hope)
 
The company i worked for was in manufacturing, they had a nice tool room and then a CNC shop. So most of the equipment they serviced was all in house. If we had something that didn't work or broke, it was simply made there if it could be. Lots of fixtures, lots of machine components that were too costly to buy every time they broke.

Did not mean to work (make parts) for that shop but with having that kind of work in your experience so that kind of parts might be what you are most suited to consider first. A mill ,lathe and grinder with a plate and measuring tools. Fixtures and cutting tools, special tools like taps and reamers because you can't afford to buy everything you might need up front. CNC will allow you to do more that one thing at once and give much better time on reoccurring job, so an aid when you have some work.
A one man job shop depending on one-ups and few-ups is likely to fail because you may be spending half your time knocking on doors so that alone cuts you 50%.
Some guys advertise on craigslist.. don't know if they get any/much work.
One shop many of you guys know was looking for out-source Grinding a few years ago so that is likely common and only needs a surface grinder and a good plate. but the pay perhaps $20 or so , I imagine so not a get rich venture.(no I never called but thought about it)
Manufacture a special fixture/device to sell on Ebay.. I could do that as many that I came up with and others I have seen are not under patent and up for anyone to make.
 
Time to start saving your $'s, live cheaply with a goal in mind, save as much as you can. This could be the start of the rest of your life. It's not going to be easy though. I'd go back to a regular job in a heart beat right now, but at 57 nobodies hiring.

If your married and thinking of starting a family, maybe put that off a few years, or if your not married avoid getting the GF pregnant.

If you look around there's deals, a FADAL 1998 went for $13k locally, apparently in great condition, Mori SL's for cheap, same with BP's and lathes if your patient. Save $20k then start looking for machines. My first shop was in an appartement single garage, phase converter,Bridgeport and lathe. Made some good money there, then 680 sq ft, now 1500 sq ft, 2500 sq ft soon (I hope)

Funny you bring up that aspect.. for several years I've talked to a machinist at the shop we worked in, always about how we would run our own. Always with the plans.. so it isn't some sudden want. Now fast forward I'm in my engineering career with a girlfriend, no kids and renting a house in a decent part of town...

For the last few months I've spent all my time researching local job shops, equipment, etc.. she finally asked tonight why and I mentioned the possibility of wanting to own a small shop... told her it would be long hours.. she said no, I ignored her. I know what I want. I can see saving for the first machine and getting started, rolling more money into more equip as needed. I just wonder if I'll have to make this a solo endevour! Lol

Not to get OT or paint a different picture of myself. But that answers that.
 
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Funny you bring up that aspect.. for several years I've talked to a machinist at the shop we worked in, always about how we would run our own. Always with the plans.. so it isn't some sudden want. Now fast forward I'm in my engineering career with a girlfriend, no kids and renting a house in a decent part of town...

For the last few months I've spent all my time researching local job shops, equipment, etc.. she finally asked tonight why and I mentioned the possibility of wanting to own a small shop... told her it would be long hours.. she said no, I ignored her. I know what I want. I can see saving for the first machine and getting started, rolling more money into more equip as needed. I just wonder if I'll have to make this a solo endevour! Lol

Not to get OT or paint a different picture of myself. But that answers that.

With that attitude, you may as well nip that relationship in the bud right now.
If you are serious, and she is not supportive, she will absolutely leave.
You are not going to have any time or money for her, for a good long time.
That is just the way it is.
 
I figured if I could start with a CNC lathe and an old knee mill that would be ideal. I've made one off parts for people in the past, but that was with former company machines. Do I want it to grow to become my career, of course, I just don't expect it to happen overnight. I have my own CAD/CAM software. I program machines all the time, work on post processors.. I want more time on conventional machines, more custom work.
 
Biggest hurdle:
Finding reliable, honest customers.

This. New customers are COD until they can prove they're not scum bags. And there are plenty of scum bags (particularly in this country) out there who erroneously think getting ahead financially relies on screwing people over. What goes around comes around.
 








 
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