OT- What to disclose in a job interview ?

Several months ago my wife lost her job at a hospital due to an alleged HIPPA violation .
We discussed this topic here , and I received a lot of consolation , but we never did get satisfaction from her previous employer as to a specific reason for termination . ( " you said something to someone that offended them , but we can't tell you what you said or who you said it to " )
Well she has put that all behind her ,and the employer did not dispute her unemployment claim .
Next week she has a job interview for a position she really wants .
My question to her is , what will you say when they ask why you left your last job ?
If she gives a generic reason like differences of opinion , or mutual agreed upon resignation , it will sound evasive . That kind of answer could be interpreted as an outright lie depending on what the previous employer says .
If she says, " to be honest , they terminated me for an unspecified breach of HIPPA rules , and would not confirm or elaborate on the details " .
Could this raise a red flag and make them avoid taking a chance ?
We are still pretty upset about this previous incident , but there is very little we can do except to just move ahead.
Any comments welcome especially from HR types .
Thanks
FBB

My answer would be "To tell you the truth I am not sure" This would open it up as a conversation as opposed to an answer that leaves the interviewer with a bunch of unasked questions in their mind. Unasked questions create doubt.

I would just tell them that there was a reduction in staff in our department/ I was laid off. With all the uncertainty facing her industry in particular would anyone actually question this? To actually sell them on that go on to talk as nicely as possible first and foremost about her career, and even refer to her former employer in a positive light and move on. If she sounds bitter and upset it will likely create more issues for her.

A sad fact is if I was doing the interview...and you were honest enough to tell me you were terminated due to a HIPPA violation and you either say you didn't say it in the first place or they wouldn't elaborate on what was said and to whom...all I know is the little hairs on the back of my neck go up and I will try to stay clear of hiring you as I smell a potential for trouble. Trouble in that you will offend someone else and its a potential lawsuit especially since I already knew your history, or you are just trouble and that is how management got you out. Maybe I'd give you a shot....but it would be after I struck out finding someone else for the position.

What is ashame...if you lied and gave a good story as to what happened and say how you realize you were wrong, apologized, the apologee was accepted but it was too late the paperwork was already started it may be different.

However if your going to lie...lie from omission.

If they press further maybe go with your not sure, as said before.

Get your foot in the door, show who you are and what your worth, if it ever comes up down the road...your employer should know you well enough by then to just know that a possible HIPPA Violation is out of character for you and not give it much weight at that time.

Easier to ask for forgiveness then ask for permission.

"We discussed this topic here , and I received a lot of consolation , but we never did get satisfaction from her previous employer as to a specific reason for termination . ( " you said something to someone that offended them , but we can't tell you what you said or who you said it to " ) "

That simply wouldn't fly here. You can't fire a person without giving a reason and that "answer" simply isn't a reason. Of course if your wife knew what was allegedly said she'd also know who complained but unless the person can stand up and admit to being the "victim" then it's only one person's word against another. The employer is in effect saying your wife isn't credible and that's not a nice allegation to have hanging over your head.

An employer here would be looking at a hefty fine (several months wages to the employee) unless they came up with a credible reason.

It's about as stupid as:

"You're going to jail for murder"
"Who did I kill?"
"Sorry, can't tell you but we do have a dead body on our hands"

I would simply say it was due to the company downsizing - which is absolutely the truth - they downsized by one - your wife. The prospective employer does not need to know anything beyond that and these days that is such a common issue no one will think twice.

Gorden
the line you quoted was referring to my statement that I sought advice on this forum back when she was fired .
3 months ago when I presented this situation to this forum , I received lots of advice , and comments .
None of which were helpful in getting her job back .
Wisconsin is a 'work at will state , and you can pretty much be fired for any reason or no reason at all .
Lacking a labor or union contract , there is no process for appeal to a terminatin.
But that is all old history at this point , and not really relevant to the question posted .
Thanks for the replys so far .

FlatBeltBob said:

Several months ago my wife lost her job at a hospital due to an alleged HIPPA violation .
We discussed this topic here , and I received a lot of consolation , but we never did get satisfaction from her previous employer as to a specific reason for termination . ( " you said something to someone that offended them , but we can't tell you what you said or who you said it to " )
Well she has put that all behind her ,and the employer did not dispute her unemployment claim .
Next week she has a job interview for a position she really wants .
My question to her is , what will you say when they ask why you left your last job ?
If she gives a generic reason like differences of opinion , or mutual agreed upon resignation , it will sound evasive . That kind of answer could be interpreted as an outright lie depending on what the previous employer says .
If she says, " to be honest , they terminated me for an unspecified breach of HIPPA rules , and would not confirm or elaborate on the details " .
Could this raise a red flag and make them avoid taking a chance ?
We are still pretty upset about this previous incident , but there is very little we can do except to just move ahead.
Any comments welcome especially from HR types .
Thanks
FBB

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I don't remember where you live, Bob, but I'm thinking Stevens Point or Wisc. Rapids area? Wherever, it's a small area when you get right down to it. Being from a small town myself, I would say they already know why your wife was let go, and much more. Even if they don't know, they will soon. So my advice would be to be truthful, don't lie, but don't make a big deal about it either.

Dont know about WI, but in California if a prospective employer calls a former employer the only thing they are allowed to say is "Yes, that person worked here from x date until y date". That is not taking into account gossip and small town factor-....
Rob

Here in Spanskiland .. same same but different.
The employer always pays (what you called the fine).
So you can always fire anyone .. but you always pay.

This is a do-good attempt with disastrous results ( in spanski law).
It is very bad you cannot reasonably get rid of people, with reasonable costs.
A mid range worker can cost you 40.000€ to fire after only 3 years - even if you have no work for them, or they cannot or wont do the work.

a. I have no issue with firings when the company does not have the work, or its for real cause.
b. I also have no patience or understanding for workers who think a "job" is a lotttery win, and at some point they get a 60.000€ (== 100.000$ ticket) for free.
c. I have no acceptance when a boss can fire anyone for no cause, no pay, because he wants to (Ie might be an prick as boss).
d. I have no acceptance of workers not committing and not doing their best. And going the extra mile (if they can) with concommittant pay.

I think a.-d. are all crap.
I think jobs are a 2-way street. Workers produce, and share well and honestly in the rewards.
Companies can only share rewards they have.

I have been on all sides.
As boss, I was fair and reasonable.
As a worker, I was always the best paid. Usually with the most hours. (I always produced a net of about 2x the nearest second.) Often a lot more hours and a lot more results. I felt it was fair - and in any review suggested not analysing my cost but my results.

No advice on what to disclose- I dont think there is a right answer. Its a balancing act with factors on all sides.

Gordon B. Clarke said:

That simply wouldn't fly here. You can't fire a person without giving a reason and that "answer" simply isn't a reason.

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Rob F. said:

Dont know about WI, but in California if a prospective employer calls a former employer the only thing they are allowed to say is "Yes, that person worked here from x date until y date". That is not taking into account gossip and small town factor-....
Rob

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I think Michigan is the same. I will check with my niece this week end as she is the personal director for a large firm here.

Seems I remember being told (by the PR man at the largest outfit I worked for) that you can’t say anything good about someone because that reflect on those you did not say anything good about and to say anything bad with not having a criminal conviction to validate the fact leaves you open to a law suite.

In many shops refusal to do what you are told to is considered an automatic quit. Certainly safety and shop or union rules apply but simply saying no can be the end of a job.

"due to an alleged HIPPA violation ." I don't think they will put that in writing..


Buck

Plus, they didn't challenge her unemployment claim, which means she was laid off. If she would have been fired for cause, they would have had a valid challenge. I would tend to go with lay-off due to workforce reduction, and not elaborate. Prospective employers are going to be seeing more and more of this as companies let full time workers go so they can replace them with part-timers, and not have to pay their health insurance. The only people who don't see this are the died-in-the-wool liberals, who think everything is rosey. In the last month the bank I do business with fired two or three full-time tellers, for "bad attitude." Right.

Dennis

I'm inclined to think that Barry is right. There are all sorts of classes, conventions, briefings etc. where health care pros get to know each other. Chances are a future employer can find the circumstances from a past employer, especially in a smaller town.

Recalling the past thread, it really does seem that your wife should know why she was fired -- and apparently still needs to know. It might have been innocent, such as discussing a patient's condition with that patient in a setting that could be overheard. In any case if it's "I don't know" then a prospective employer can also include she didn't learn anything from her apparent HIPPA slip.

You really want to wrap up things with the old employer so their story is somewhat along the lines of "she made a simple mistake -- unfortunately our hands were tied and we had to let her go." And then spin the story with the prospective employer in a way that a) doesn't bring it up; and b) if it does come up, tells the truth in positive way.

Tell us what your wife learns about why she was fired and maybe we can help with response. It would also be nice to know something about the culture of the old and prospective employer. Maybe, for example, the old one was a huge bureaucratic organization with litigious patients and the new one is a small organization that values patient-caregiver interaction of the sort your wife is so good at?

My wife and my daughter are both RN's. I have seen lots of their co-workers and friends let go for this very reason over the years and my daughter lost her first nursing job this way. The way things are set up in medical facilities, HIPPA violations are a very popular way for employers to get rid of staff, because it is so easy to violate HIPPA; in fact, it may be impossible to NOT violate it. I have never seen such a cut throat, vindictive bunch as those who work in the medical field.

My advice is for your wife to be totally honest as to the reasons she was let go. If she doesn't know what the exact reasons are, she should explain that. I wouldn't volunteer anything, but the subject is surely going to be raised in an interview so she should be truthful. Believe me, these folks hiring have run into these HIPPA things before, and they will figure out a lot on their own. Also, it's a small world when it comes to nursing, and chances are, these prospective new employers already know all about her previous employment.

R. Dan said:

My advice is for your wife to be totally honest as to the reasons she was let go. If she doesn't know what the exact reasons are, she should explain that. I wouldn't volunteer anything, but the subject is surely going to be raised in an interview so she should be truthful.

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That would be my advice (and a much better way of putting it than I could) ,..........imagine getting caught out trying to cover up or lie over what happened, the interview results could go from ''at least she was honest'' to ''she was a liar''

PeteM said:

I'm inclined to think that Barry is right. There are all sorts of classes, conventions, briefings etc. where health care pros get to know each other. Chances are a future employer can find the circumstances from a past employer, especially in a smaller town.
...

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I live in a small town about 200 miles west of FlatBelt. If I wake up tomorrow morning, and while driving down the road see that Joe Blow's pickup is sitting in his driveway freshly smashed up, by the time I get through the bank, post office, or gas station, I will know: What he hit, When he hit it, Where he hit it, Whose yard he messed up, How fast he was going, How much it will cost to fix the truck, What body shop he is taking it to, and if he got hurt. Whether I want to know or not. If Mrs. FlatBelt's interview is local, they probably already know. They might not even ask about it. If it's not so local, it will just take them a little longer to find out. One of Mrs. FlatBelt's old bosses or co-workers has probably even already put in a good word for her, and said she was doing a good job and got the hook for reasons other than her job performance. Who knows.

So I would say trying to hide anything would backfire and actually make her look worse. If they already know the situation, and ask about it, and she is truthful, at least they will figure she is honest.

I don't know if omission is really an option IMO.
Like you wouldn't expect them to call the previous employer if she makes it past stage 1?


Either way - would be nice to hear if/when she does get a/the job.



---------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Barry Weeks said:

I live in a small town about 200 miles west of FlatBelt. If I wake up tomorrow morning, and while driving down the road see that Joe Blow's pickup is sitting in his driveway freshly smashed up, by the time I get through the bank, post office, or gas station, I will know: What he hit, When he hit it, Where he hit it, Whose yard he messed up, How fast he was going, How much it will cost to fix the truck, What body shop he is taking it to, and if he got hurt. Whether I want to know or not. If Mrs. FlatBelt's interview is local, they probably already know. They might not even ask about it. If it's not so local, it will just take them a little longer to find out. One of Mrs. FlatBelt's old bosses or co-workers has probably even already put in a good word for her, and said she was doing a good job and got the hook for reasons other than her job performance. Who knows.

So I would saying trying to hide anything would backfire and actually make her look worse. If they already know the situation, and ask about it, and she is truthful, at least they will figure she is honest.

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If her town is that small that they already know what she did before the interview then they wouldn't be calling her in if it were that bad. On the other hand unless you are being fired with cause and know what you did HR will almost never be honest with you as to the real cause of your termination as any good HR person knows at the moment of layoff anything they say can and will be used against them.

With this in mind if I were interviewing a person I would figure the less they knew about why they got canned the more likely they were just caught in the cross fire of things beyond their control. As a result the more the OP's wife does to explain her termination the more it sounds like she really knows about why they let her go and has something to hide so don't do it!

So how I would recommend she hand it is go in there and act like this is all behind her. Sell them on how she is the right employee for the future position. If the question even comes up which likely it wont, I would say "To be honest I really don't know, I believe it was a reduction in staff" (there is no lie here as there was a reduction in staff even if it was only her). After that I would tell them how it was quite hurtful as she was dedicated employee who looked forward to working there for years to come.... She can speak a little about any good reviews positive feedback she got, how much she enjoyed working for her boss, and anything else positive and truthful about herself working there to explain how this totally caught her out of the blue. Do not let her go on and on about it, make sure what ever she says is the truth as she does not want to lie and get caught. Lastly after she answers the question make sure she concludes with some nice line like, "hopefully there loss will be your gain!"

If somehow the word HIPPA accidentally spills out which it should not then make sure it is said that was the official words she was told at termination, but there was no reason she can think of that was an issue. (Truth is it sounds like if this wasn't HIPPA either it was a layoff and for what ever the reason your wife was hit, or she stepped either on the wrong person's toes or got in someone's way, what ever it is she will likely never know. Keep in mind when a place starts to layoff it can really scare the whole flock, so calling this a HIPPA firing may be more about maintaining morale than HIPPA)

Lastly wish her the best of luck and tell her to look at this interview as signs that things are starting to turn around in her favor.

I would much prefer honesty out right. HIPPA laws are not as patent protecting as they claim, even telling a mother what medication her 19 year old, still living at home, child is on could be a violation. I would think the staff at the new place would know this.

On a side note, HIPPA has really hurt my families ability to help my little sister, who after 27 years of being a normal, productive person, ran into some kind of mental illness, we can't get any info from the doctors or pharmacist, as to what medication she needs to take and at what time of day, or even what they think her prognosis is. The law has stood in the way helping us help her.

I think she's got to tell the truth. My wife is a manager at a good size specialty practice and seems to know EVERYBODY in her
field. Lots of calls about employee backgrounds are "unofficial" and never took place.
Maybe management at your wifes previous job just didn't like her....it happens.
The HIPPA deal could just be a excuse.
Who knows, without a full blown wrongfull discharge lawsuit you'll never know.
And good luck ever getting rehired in that area agin even if you won.
Most of these things have about six sides.....
If it's someplace she really likes maybe she can take a temp job with them
through a agency as a "tryout"
David