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Thread: Who owns the drawings?
10-28-2013, 12:06 PM #41
10-28-2013, 02:46 PM #42
Funny thing about contracts - if the other party doesn't make any payments then the contract has no validity and the software developer owns all the IP, regardless of any purported assignment of rights in said contract.
Said company that didn't pay me tried the law path to get back a copy of the software but it was my computer, my development licence and my IP because they hadn't paid 3 invoices in a row and I quit the project.
Let's just say that, had they been successful legally, the results may have fallen somewhat short of their expectations...... and my master copy was in another country so out of jurisdiction.
But for the OP - as matalmunchr says, there's an arguable case. Approached the wrong way, there's also a career-limited future. I've been known to publish stuff as free open source if it's been my own work out of company hours. You don't get any money, but you do get a warm inner glow and other people can use the work. Just a thought in this case, if money isn't the issue as much as recognition.
10-28-2013, 02:58 PM #43
what would be the benefit to yourself be if you gave this other company the drawings are they going to pay you for the 100 hours
i wouldnt give them any drawings you could end up worse off than working a free 100 hours and you must be in the good books could there be a nice pay rise or promotion after that, if someone did that for me and my shop id be over the moon it wouldnt go with out a decent reward you clearly deserve it
10-28-2013, 03:20 PM #44
I have seen some of this first hand when working on campus at the local university. Try telling them they don't have the rights to your stuff and see what happens.
I think that no matter which side of this is right or correct in the eyes of the law, the winner will be the one that has the best lawyer(s).
Many responses have already said it, but the best thing to do is to just quit working at home for them, they want you to do the work, do it on the clock at their place. They don't want to get you access to a computer, then tell them to buy a pencil sharpener and some Big Chief tablets. Anything else, they need to compensate you for it. My guess, they don't know what you have invested in the project, let them find out on their dime, but be prepared for them getting pissed about how long it takes because you have already set the precedence for what you are willing to work for.
I had a similar situation at the old job, they wanted me to keep up my level if investment in them, but they kept reducing theirs and when I started following the boss' own work ethics (as in only do what I am getting paid for and when) I wasn't there very many months after.
10-28-2013, 04:42 PM #45
Unless you explicitly sign over ownership the copyright to automatically defaults to the author, you.
10-28-2013, 05:07 PM #46
10-28-2013, 05:26 PM #47
Bottom line, most employment contracts state that ANY and all work done while employed by the company belongs to the company. Thats why back in the day, Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak had to get written permission from HP to start Apple Computer. Woz was employed by HP at the time and his employment contract said any and all inventions Woz did belonged to HP.
As stated above, you can argue around it and likely beat the criminal "Theft of work product" charges (least thats what they used to be called), but you would likely be cutting a check after the civil damages case. Either way, the lawyers would bleed you dry.
Don't do it, stop working for free.
10-28-2013, 07:53 PM #48
You know, you might ask HR for a copy of your contract, if any. Or the collective bargaining agreement, if any. If there is no contract or CB, I think you may be free to transmit this design to the third party.
One critical thing: if the drawings represent the design the company was using BEFORE you started modifying it, I think they could make a pretty good claim that the drawings cannot be shared, regardless of who owns the dwg itself. So if you can separate your design from their design, and there is no contract restricting your IP rights, you may be in good shape.
Last thought: why not ask the most reasonable mgmt person you know at your work if you can share the drawing with them?
10-29-2013, 07:15 AM #49
Somebody that invents, creates, draws these ideas, they can tell an employer where to stuff it! Those employment contracts that say they own your first born and all that are almost impossible to enforce and they know it. It doesn't matter if you create the intellectual property at work, on work time, using a work computer, powered with work electricity, sitting in front of a work desk, under work lights, drinking work coffee, they can kiss both cheeks of my Lilly white ass!
UNLESS YOU EXPLICITLY SIGN OVER YOUR RIGHTS THE COPYRIGHT BELONGS TO THE AUTHOR.
To all those folks that say "Oh but you might loose your job!" get a grip, on your balls that is, if you still have them. You might want to head to the head and check, cause it sure sounds like you left them at home with the old lady.
10-29-2013, 09:08 AM #50
10-29-2013, 11:32 AM #51
I simply can't fathom giving my company something so they can prosper for free and receive nothing in return.
I value my time at $40.00 an hour. To me, there is NO difference between giving them 100 hours and writing them a check for $4,000.00 as a good will gesture.
Value yourself and what you do. People don't value your contribution unless they see the value.
10-29-2013, 02:35 PM #52
It has already been pointed out many times that the author has copyright absent an assignment via employment contract.
It has already been pointed out many times that even if you do legally own the copyright, defending yourself in court could well result in bankruptcy.
It has already been pointed out many times that even if the company decided not to sue you, that you could go on a 'shit list' and have your life made miserable or get fired.
The OP needs to weigh up all those factors and make a decision after weighing up the potential costs.
Your approach is akin to an attempt on a financial Darwin award.
FWIW, having been a software designer for over 30 years, I suspect I've read & signed far more contracts dealing with IP issues than you ever have, and have personally lived through the fallout when things start going tits-up. I already advised the OP to talk to his management about the drawings and stop doing 'free' work if the company values his efforts at $0.00.
Personally, I prefer my balls to stay right where they are, or with the 'old lady' rather than sitting in a jar on my lawyer's filing cabinet - which is where your approach is likely to facilitate.
11-16-2013, 02:09 PM #53
Regardless, unless you plan on looking for a new job you will compromise your position. Why would you help a competitor, that's taking food from your mouth to feed someone else!
Just cause they have X clause does not mean it is legally enforceable. They can sue you for anything, not sure they will win.
11-16-2013, 02:12 PM #54
11-16-2013, 07:01 PM #55
First NEVER do anything on your own time for a company. Consider it an expensive lesson and move on. If they ever ask for an engineered measuring device part etcetera unless it is in your Job description..... it is not your job. My example, Everything that I do can be traced back to some text / machining reference book if they need it , want it they can figure it out. I routinely deal with reliability engineers who are "special" believe me. My job description vs their job description usually shuts them down and gets them to do their job. If they ask again tell them you are on the clock and they provide everything you need to do the job.
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11-20-2013, 01:26 PM #56
gotta stop doing the work for free from home.
11-22-2013, 09:32 PM #57
You may own the drawings, and you may not have signed over your rights to them to the company, but how much money can you piss away to lawyers if you show them to outsiders. Even if you win, you lose.
I would keep that money and start job hunting. They've shown themselves for what they are.
I would read the opening post in the following thread: "How should I handle denied raise/promotion situation". It's located in this forum, and started 8/12/13. Then I'd read post #75 in the thread, mostly the quote of Douglas J. Rizzo's thoughts on how to go about it.
Finally, they would never see the drawings. Unless they wanted to buy them.
11-23-2013, 01:16 AM #58
I don't think there IS a Sam Adams brewery. I believe in the Western PA region, Sam Adams is brewed by Iron City, of Pittsburgh, PA. And brewing beer is not difficult, been done for more than a 1000 years. You can't steal secrets from them, they don't have any, other than their formulas/recipes.
For a couple hundred years , mechanics in the US have learned their trade working for others. When they became smarter than the boss, they went out on their own, set up companies that put their old boss into the ground.
It is more difficult with changes in the Law. If you even think of something while at work, do it at home, it belongs to the Company. Creativity is dead. You may patent something, but it has to be signed over to the Company.
Most patents are Corporate, minute improvements, or changes, patented by the company to prevent a competitor from patenting something similar, lawsuit!
11-27-2013, 09:01 AM #59
OP, have you actually spoken to your employer about getting paid for your work-at-home time?
You state you have "not been compensated" - have you been rebuked and now looking for some kind of revenge by selling to another company?