Apology to Ox
Ox. In retrospect I realize that my comments appear to be a criticism directed at you and your moderating style.
That was certainly not my thoughts or intention. You've been a good contributor in here and made many good, well thought out posts.
It was, and is, my impression that you didn't really want the moderating job, but sort of got backed into it by special request. Perhaps I'm wrong about that, but that's the way it seems to me. I know that you're quite busy and don't have a lot of time available.
My disappointment and criticism was actually aimed at those members who, in my opinion, let down those of us who prefer to keep a more pleasant atmosphere.
Whatever way it goes, so be it.
RJ , how is the mod system setup here ? 1 mod / forum and that is their sole responsibility ? It seems so . I've seen 2 mods in that thread that could've steped in to help out in the absence of OX . Sorta cover each other .
A) If known troublemakers were sent packing
B) If otherwise responsible adults could refrain from feeding Trolls
There would be very little need for a moderator at all.
Yet - what we end up with here for whatever reason, is members (that should know better, but just kant help themselve) that just hafta git their $.02 in in responce to a troll. But then when things escalate, guess who is the first (or second?) to fuss about the outcome?
The internet is not that new anymore, and you guys should be old enough now to be able to bite your tongue when you know that it is simply a fishing expedition.
I saw the apparent trouble thread when it first came on the other night. Yes - it apparently had some politics anvolved (I don't follow politics (or the news for that matter) and think that they should all be shot and let GOD sort'm out. (At least the career types!)) but it WAS owner related. I prolly had not been back on the site for more than 10 minutes in the next day or so.
Don't blame me for moronic activities of others.
The thought that you guys need moderated is insane. Grow up!
I am Ox and approve this post!
Last edited by Ox; 08-04-2012 at 12:45 PM.
Reason: Go ahead and pick apart the speling
I have never understood why people care if threads run umuck... its only the posters that are wasting their breath and a little bit of bandwidth.
NOT TRYING TO FEED HIM BUT,
Originally Posted by John Welden
Your a self admitted troll and thats fine. If you have something to ad great but in this section you are neither an owner or manager therefore have nothing to ad.
Unless you kill off the trolls permanently they keep coming back. If you banned a half dozen people this would be a much nicer place. The moderation here is a joke, but I understand everyone's hands are tied. The name calling in that thread that got vaporized was pretty pathetic. I never called anyone or any group names yet I had a moderator on this board calling me names, utterly pathetic.
As far as I know, the admin and Don (Milacron) are the only ones that can cross the "border" into a forum where they are not a moderator. Maybe Don is also the "admin", but I don't know.
Originally Posted by ihbuilder
Originally Posted by Ox
Hmm Ox. good analogy would be a public pool wher all the little children play together, having fun.
Then, a new kid comes around and in the name of fun, pisses in the pool.
What do we do then? Stay quiet and swallow or try to beat the new kid up?
FWIW, I don't think draining the pool is the answer tough.....
Well, since this is obviously aimed at me, I guess I'll have to just call you out for the liar you are. You posted, not once but twice, that anyone here who doesn't buy what the republicans are selling was obviously not a shop owner, but rather some deburr hand posing as a shop owner. IOW, I or anyone else here who says they're shop owners but not republicans are lying about being owners. You call me a liar, or insinuate that I'm a liar by claiming a group which I happen to belong to are all liars, and you will always get a response from me. Try the same thing face to face and you can bet your ass the response won't be typed.
Originally Posted by Dualkit
Hello - my name is Johnny Weldon, and I am a troll.
My post has been edited by the Ox man and anyone who replies to my posts on this board will have their posts edited as well. Possibly stating that you are wearing pink undies at this moment or something like that?
I am Ox and I approve this h'yah edit!
Sound like RJ is sorry he gave up the post, Ox is too much like munchr, lenient, should I say, and I very much like it like that..
Seems also like you are religious, don't like the "blasphemy", or should I say "Coarse language"?
I like this thread just as it is. I don't like threads where you get banned for "damn".
"If you banned a half dozen people this would be a much nicer place."
Name them, and I bet you I am on the list. I don't have to make this place NICE for you! You profess to be a MACHINIST, and if you ARE a MACHINIST, you have heard every word that has been uttered here. If you are a mini-lathe owner from Westchester who, fuck you if you don't like the argot OF the Machine Shop, posts here, just hold your thoughts in.
Coarse language is the norm in ANY profession where men work. It bothers you, go to a HolyRoller site, they never say any more than "You will go to HELL, if you go to Practical Machinist."
Kind of sad that people are supposedly responsible enough to own a shop, but yet they can't communicate like adults on a forum, without someone monitoring them.
On a side note, another forum I visit has a separate political section, anything related to politics goes in there, because its always a touchy subject and gets out of hand. That way people can argue all they want(just like politicians) and the rest of us don't have to be bothered.
Originally Posted by Insert
Ok, for good measure I put myself on the top of that list.
Please disclose another shopowner that doesn't behave like an adult on this board?
We are all men, and the first sign of maturity would be the ability to admit that w are all immature.
It wasn't aimed at you, and I wasn't calling you a liar. I am sure there are plenty of shop owners that are Democrats, just not as many as claimed in here. If the ratio of shop owners I know who don't like Obama are 25-0, it is doubtful it is 60-40 pro Obama in the real world like it is here. I have found posers on other machining forms and I am sure there are plenty in here. You took something personal and escalated things once again, pathetic behavior for anyone, let alone a moderator.
Originally Posted by metlmunchr
As usual, you again misjudge me. I'm very happy to have given it up, and in no way would want to resume it.
Originally Posted by gmatov
I'm rather pleased with myself that I never posted any comment or remark in the previous thread that started this one or this one
This sub forum and "Manufacturing in America and Europe" IMO are the two that allow the most comments for and against just about anything and the chance to voice opinions. I find them very close to the type of banter one would expect in any shop or company in free countries.
I am serious much of the time but am also a firm believer in "All work and no play ........................"
Just for the record. RJ and I didn't always agree but he did a good job as moderator. Ox is doing well too. I know I certainly couldn't do a better job at it so I'm just going to mind my own business I think there's a compliment in there somewhere LOL
I'm reluctant to step into the shooting gallery here, but I have a suggestion that I suspect would improve things considerably. By way of introduction, I belong to another website similar to but on a smaller scale than PM. On that site we NEVER have any problems and food fights like we see regularly here at PM. Why? That site, like PM, has a diverse albeit geographically localized membership, ranging from hobbyists to professionals, who come together to share experiences, learn, and help others to become better at their craft (in that instance, woodworking). I'm certain that the members have their share of differences, some strongly-held and potentially contentious, but it never becomes an issue, because for the short time they spend on that website, they are coming togehter in pursuit of a common objective, enjoying woodworking and becoming better at it.
One reason, perhaps THE reason, that website works so well is because of three main rules:
1. NO discussion of politics or religion allowed.
2. NO coarse or abusive language.
3. NO name calling.
To the best of my knowledge, there has never been an issue about these rules. There are moderators on that site, but the only "moderation" I am aware of is when the moderators move a post to another category to get a better response. I have NEVER seen a post edited or deleted, nor a thread locked. I believe that those rules have been in place at that site from day one, so members have the choice to go along or stay away. It's a shame that such restraints could be necessary on a website frequented by (presumably) educated, mature adults. But, so goes life.
I think PM would be greatly improved by the implementation of those three little rules, which would do NOTHING whatsoever to impede the flow of machining-related information. If you are inclined to disagree, ask yourself why we as a whole are here. Are we here to start or become involved in pointless political arguments? Are we here to broadcast our own immaturity, ignorance and inability to utilize effectively basic communications skills? Or, are we here to seek and provide great and useful machining information, to make ourselves better machinists, to more fully enjoy our craft?
Someone may say, "But I am a shop owner, and I am being harmed by political dynamics. That's pertinent, isn't it?" You'd think so, but there is ample evidence on this site that people have a wide range of political opinions, and that those opinions are strongly held and will not change. Discussions of this sort are pointless and add no value.
So, that's my suggestion - to adopt those three little rules for the membership, and apply them with an iron fist until the problem goes away. This may translate into, "until the problem people go away", but that probably won't mean much of a loss, as perhaps new members may join, or some quiet members may choose to become more active once the atmosphere improves. There are several members here who are, I am certain, idiots in matters related to politics. But despite that, I would be very willing to accept those peoples' wisdom or experience in matters related to machining. Other members may not be so willing, or may ignore an "idiot"'s request for a machining solution, even though they may have the answer at their fingertips. That's the real shame, the real loss here.
I can think of other major trade related (but not metalworking) websites that are over-moderated to the point of absurdity. That's NOT what I am envisioning for PM! Limiting the new restraints to no politics, no religion, no name calling and no swear words should do nothing to impede the flow of on-topic information (or even OT stuff, come to think of it).
Don, are you listening?
btw, a most upsetting (to me) thread involved a gentleman here who chose to post some pictures of his craftsmanship, of which he was justifiably proud. It's true that not all of his work was strictly speaking metalworking (although close), it was still craftsmanship and as such inspirational. But in the thread in question, some members dragged this poor guy through the mud for being vain and for posting too many pictures of his work! I enjoy seeing and am inspired by ALL pictures of our members' handiwork! (Even if it's produced on a mahcine that looks like a walk-in cooler and has a keyboard attached to it.) Sad to say, my rules would do nothing to prevent such a situation, but maybe that's as it should be, and in any event, it was a pretty rare incident.
btw2, an alternate solution, or a refinement to my suggestion, would involve the creation of a totally new subsection called, maybe, "The ZOO" , where all is fair game. But if this is done, I would suggest that the "ZOO" topics never come up in the main page topic list. I don't know about other members, but that's where I find 99.99% of the topics I read and reply to. Eliminating contentious topics from that listing would be about the same as them not even existing. Out of sight, out of mind...
Politics is hands down the dirtiest business on earth. If we're talking politics, it can't be civil(The whole nature of politics is garbage). Politicians are wolves in sheeps clothing. They are lairs, cheaters, thieves, and murderers in many cases.. All in a nice pretty package with a suit and a smile.
I am a guy with cuts on my hands, dirty clothes at the end of the day, and someone who uses four letter words way too often. But i don't lie, cheat and steal. But i am the savage?
If being an adult means sugarcoating the truth, then guess i will would be one of those shop owners thats not an "Adult". You will always get honesty with me, positive or negative.
Let me get this strait. Using four letter words makes you a child, but supporting lying thieves is adult behavoir?