Building a Gantry crane to move a 2 CWT Massey Power hammer

Hello All! Since this is my first post, Forgive me if i put this in the wrong section, just move it if it is. I am a Blacksmith, Hopefully soon too be finishing my formal training by next june, and i have a problem. One of the tutors at my college has offered me a 2 CWT In slides Massey for just £1500 which i believe is pretty damn good. The only problem with it is that the anvil is seperate from the body of the hammer, and has to be put into the ground. The Hammer then has to be lifted over the top of the anvil which i imagine to be about 2 feet without having looked at the plans yet, and the hammer is just under 3 metres high. Anyway, I priced up the cost for moving it, and it turned out to be fairly expensive to rent a forklift, although i saw it coming, i didnt realise how much these companies charge for delivery! Someone else on I forge Iron mentioned that in order to do the same operation they built a Gantry crane, which i have been looking into. I estimate the hammer to weigh in at 3-4 tons depending on how much i can strip off the thing, which i will have to do anyway in order to clean it up and inspect the cylinder. Me, and the person i am going into have level 2 Mig and arc i think, although it may be higher (i don't pay too much attention to the paperwork, just turn up and get welding lol). We are both quite confident in our welding capabilities. What i wanted to know is, since you guys are the experts, would you recommend building a gantry crane? are there any plans out there for one? What would you estimate the cost to be? Is this even safe or should i stick to getting a forklift?

Thanks for your time,

Paul Stoddart


P.S I won't be moving until next June, but i wanted to get it sorted now, and i am looking for a premises in Norfolk/Suffolk, If anyone has any advice for workshops in that area send me a PM please!

I think you're going to get a lot of people on both sides of the issue. The safest way to do it is to buy a gantry. They can be expensive though.

I was in the same boat as you recently and needed to lift a 5 ton mill. I didn't have a forklift close enough to rent and didn't want to have one trucked in, so I spent the money and bought steel. It didn't take me long to weld it together either. I determined the size of beams required by using webstructural.com and with a heavy dose of reality checking looking at designs of other peoples gantry designs (most companies list the beam size on their websites). I've successfully lifted the mill, an 8000lb lathe and many other items with the gantry with no surprises. I'm working on getting wheels made for it now as moving it without wheels has proven difficult.

You might spend a few hours canvassing the neighborhood to find the hidden forklift. I have had good luck finding the friendly neighbor who was happy to drive his lift a short distance to assist lifting and loading a machine. Regards, Clark

lessons learned (some of them the hard way!):

1- build it so it's steel riding on steel....IOW, if you were going to make a 't' for instance, the horizontal should be the single piece, and the verts should be the individuals. Don't rely on your welds to carry the weight, they should be there solely to hold the thing together.

2- overbuild, overbuild, overbuild......and if there's any doubt, overbuild it some more! When lifting, there's no such thing as 'too strong', but 'not quite strong enough' can be a killer (literally).

In the olden days, these things were delivered by a team of men, moved with wood rollers, and lifted into place with a timber-built crane with block and tackle. That being said, I recommend either hiring a rigger, or renting a forklift for the job. The last time I moved a milling machine, I checked around and found a 1-man rigging company. He had a truck with a power tilt-bed and a forklift. He picked up the mill and moved it for only $300.

I suggest looking for the same thing - a 1-man rigging company. That's all you need to do the job. You could rent a forklift and do it yourself, except then you have to move the forklift, move the machine, and return the forklift / truck. It would probably be much cheaper to just let someone do the job who has everything needed.

I have never done it myself but a lot of guys here have posted about using drop deck trailers in the past. Over here a lot of equipment rental (hire) places have them where you can rent them, then all you need to do is tip the machine just a bit, either with a pinch bar, or some sort of hydraulic jack to get some steel rollers underneath and get a comealong, and you will have it on your trailer. I don't know if these are available in England but they would be the way go go.



Drop Deck Trailers | Drop Deck Trailers for Sale | Flat Bed Trailers

One other thought, you are in England, find your local steam traction engine group and offer to trade haulage for some free blacksmithing and supply ales for the team! It should be a win win bunch of fun for you and all your new found mates, and when you are done you can all write up a story worthy of a tale in the next edition of Old Glory Magazine! It should be far more fun for those guys than sitting around at the traction rally and not even being allowed to drive anywhere. Not sure how realistic that one would be but I bet you would have one of the best machinery moving experiences ever!

Anyhow couldn't resist tossing that one in there, you guys over there in England have such a wonderful culture of preserving and playing with some great mechanical toys! Here's some photos of my day out at a small traction rally when I was over there.




By the way this thread would likely do better in the general or antique forum.

PM member Ruston3W is near to you and has experience of moving iron, perhaps he would know someone who could move it for you.

Thanks all for the response! Since it has to come across the country from wales, i was hoping to get someone with a hiab to transport it for me, that's no problem, just lifting it up, any hints on what stock i should use to build the crane? Also, how much do you reckon it will cost?

cheers,

Paul

When I installed my 5Cwt Massey I just paid riggers to set the hammer. I did get a neighbour with a forklift to help me set the anvil ahead of time. What is your time worth building the gantry would your time be better spent making things to sell? Where are you going to store the gantry when you are done? How much experience do you have driving a forklift and did the rental come with a lifting arm. Moving the hammer which is fairly top heavy on a set of forks would terrify me if you have to go up or down ANY sort of slope curb etc. Here are the riggers getting ready to set it over the anvil.

If you decide to go with the gantry look at these guys website Adjustable Height Steel Gantry Cranes, Gantry, Gantry Crane It gives some dimensions for the beams they use but not how heavy the flanges are. As others have said if in doubt overbuild, a failure could kill someone.

Pattnmaker is 100% right - unless you will be using the crane repeatedly, track down a rental somewhere and save time and money. When I had to move a mill down the hill a long time ago, I scheduled it at the same time as some landscapers. I moved the mill down the hill with my trailer, and they used their Bobcat loader (and about 6 men) to move it into my shop area. They didn't charge me anything for their time (all 10 minutes), but I shook each man's hand with a green handshake ($40 per man). At that point, the boss announced that they would all meet at Stark's restaurant for lunch, and would I like to join them. We all had a nice lunch, the mill was moved perfectly, and everyone was happy.

Your in Emgland So like you said yourself already use a hiab to bring it home
If the shop/door is high enough you could even put it in place with the hiab
Hiabs (articulating cranes) are very convenient for moving machinery But for some liability reason(once again) they aren`t used that much for it in the US
Making a gantry crane is a days work So your choise should depend on what you think your time is worth and how cheap you can get the iron

Peter from holland

The problem with that is that, the hammer and the anvil will arrive at the same time, and i will have to set the anvil in concrete, which will take a couple days, so i can't use the hiab to actually move the hammer, because the delivery guy will be gone by then, i will him to put it as close to the shop door as it will go, and then i will roll it over so it is beside the anvil, and then lift it over the top. A Gantry crane is very useful when it is needed, but you are right, of course i will not need it that often and it will take up space. Has anyone got any other suggestions of how to lift it up, move it across and then drop it over the anvil?

cheers,

Paul

Find a friendly farmer with a telescopic handler ,biggest problem then is finding suitable slings etc but you will have to do that anyway.

Pstodds said:

Has anyone got any other suggestions of how to lift it up, move it across and then drop it over the anvil?

cheers,
Paul

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It all depends on what you have at hand
Does the building has any structual members that you could use
Perhaps you can reinforce that with additional columns
If you can move dirt around real easy yu could do it the Egytian way
If you have a lott of heavy timber you can use that
Without knowing what you have at hand its hard to give advice

Peter from holland

Well i'm certainly not planning on rushing things! The hammer won't even be moved until after easter next year, i just want to look at the options i have for moving it so i can price it up and hopefully get an overall cost. the guy i'm buying it from says i have as long as i want so thankfully there is no rush. I am currently on the lookout for a shop, and i am definitely searching for one with a high roof, because even if i don't build a gantry crane, i will still have to get a forklift or telehandler in as you guys said. But, i forgot to mention, that the ram has surface rust and given that the hammer has not been used in a good few years, the cylinder will need cleaning out and packing replaced. How do i remove the 100 kg ram without a gantry crane? Suggestions?

Paul

Im right near you, just on the cost by the 2 nukes?? Hope you got some real good neighbours. Equally hope your not moving it in next door :-)

As to lifting gear, have you spoken to Ruskins?? There in ipswich forget the road name but they use to hire out lifting gear. Equally having chains made up in those capacities is not all that expensive, neither are slings. Haveing a set of 2 leg chains of decent capacity tested with leg shortening hooks come in real useful for a whole bunch of things, yeah they may sit years between uses, but when you need them, few other things will work. One thing you probaly best do is work out what threaded eye bolts if any you need to lift it with.

At north of three tons i can tell you almost for certain your going to have fun finding a mobile gantry to lift it unless you get luckier than i did last time i went through something similar. Equally manual 3+ ton chain falls are big buggers and heavy to set (your not going to get a mate to hold them up whilst you tighten the shackle to the carriage!! + result in the need to pull a lot of chain to get even a small lift, seriously slow going. You also need to lease carefully with the hiab hire people, whilst theres some out there that will lift 5 tons, very few will do it at much if hardly any reach. Be sure to specify just how near and how far out the lift is taking place to were the truck can get too.

3 tons is pushing it for the smaller tele handlers too, there certainly not going to have hardly any reach if you need it at that weight. A larger one, yeah, no sweat. Driven with care and they can be real precise lifting tools if there in good working order. Way better than a forklift if you have anything other than good solid surfaces to drive on. a forklift that can do 3 ton needs to be on decent concrete or really dense hard packed fill minimum.

Removeing the ram at the kinda human level weight is pretty easy, good sling and a small chain fall and you can just use a decent tower scaffold as the lifting frame. You will need to use a decent cross beam though.

Other option to crane - gantry is simply load skates to move it and wood cribbing and suitable jacks to raise and lower it, its slower going but a hell of a lot cheaper to hire and you can for certain hire them locally. A large stack of good cribbing is always useful too.

thanks for the reply, yeah i know ruskins, they are literally five minutes from my current workshop down foxhall road. i think i will probably go with a forklift, as it just seems a hell of a lot cheaper than anything else. i will have to make sure that i get a place with a decent floor and make sure the height of the door is big enough to get it through. Although once the hammer is in position, how do i get the forks out from underneath? put planks under the hammer and then knock them out after? Forgive my ignorance, but i have never used a forklift before!

Pstodds said:

thanks for the reply, yeah i know ruskins, they are literally five minutes from my current workshop down foxhall road. i think i will probably go with a forklift, as it just seems a hell of a lot cheaper than anything else. i will have to make sure that i get a place with a decent floor and make sure the height of the door is big enough to get it through. Although once the hammer is in position, how do i get the forks out from underneath? put planks under the hammer and then knock them out after? Forgive my ignorance, but i have never used a forklift before!

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Brother, you need to contact a rigger and bite the bullet. I'm an not trying to come across as rude but the questions you are asking screams accident in my opinion. When you are playing with something even 1/10 of that weight it can kill you if not careful.
A rigger is easily able to do what you need but you will be paying for your safety and his expertise.
As thermite stated, the weight and HEIGHT is a mother. I built a 1 ton gantry and it is very useful but you are wanting to lift MUCH higher and if that SOB fell, you will not only scrap what your lifting but you will also be replacing your floor.
Some things you just need to pony up and pay to do it right and SAFE.

Lastly, the cost of building a gantry and the requisite chain fall is going to be far more expensive than a rigger coming out and doing it and leaving.

but i have never used a forklift before!

Not the job for your first go.

The way to do it would most likely be with slings from above, not sitting on the forks

Pstodds said:

thanks for the reply, yeah i know ruskins, they are literally five minutes from my current workshop down foxhall road. i think i will probably go with a forklift, as it just seems a hell of a lot cheaper than anything else. i will have to make sure that i get a place with a decent floor and make sure the height of the door is big enough to get it through. Although once the hammer is in position, how do i get the forks out from underneath? put planks under the hammer and then knock them out after? Forgive my ignorance, but i have never used a forklift before!

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so your "gona go with a forklift" pardon my english, but since you asked for opinions, that tell me you haved NO EXPERIENCE with this heavy of a machine and therefore should in my opinion HIRE A PRO.... you'l save time, money and avoid killing yourself.