Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 20 of 167
Like Tree205Likes

Thread: Company tardiness policy, do you think this is fair?

  1. #1
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default Company tardiness policy, do you think this is fair?

    I've got a couple guys that are habitually late. I bust their balls about it and there good for a little while but slowly drift back toward being late. I don't mind a few minutes here or there but when it starts to get to 15, 20, or 30+ minutes late it tends to get annoying. Especially annoying when they leave exactly at quitting time, so I know they can tell time.

    Our E2 shop ERP system tracks attendance and I did a report today, 1 year to date. One guy had a 99% on-time rate, another was 83%, another was 38%, and the worst guy was 25% on-time with 169 days late.

    So I came up with this tardiness policy. What do you guys think? I'm trying not to be a dick but this has to stop and the first step is a company policy.

    "All employees are expected to be at work at the beginning of each and every workday. In general, road construction, traffic congestion, personal issues, and normal weather conditions are not acceptable reasons for tardiness.

    The time keeping portion of the E2 system will be used to determine tardiness. The designated start time is 8:00AM and Employees will be considered tardy if they clock in after 8:05AM.

    In the event of a public emergency, weather or otherwise, the supervisor will have the discretion to excuse employee tardiness at-large and not on an individual basis.

    Effective Febuary 5th 2013, xxx company will address employee tardiness with the progressive discipline schedule as follows:

    Two (2) days tardy in a quarter, Verbal Warning.

    Four (4) days tardy in a quarter, Written Warning.

    Six (6) days tardy in a quarter, Three (3) day suspension without pay.

    Eight (8) days tardy in a quarter, Five (5) day suspension without pay.

    Ten (10) days tardy in a quarter, Termination.

    Quarters are defined as follows:

    1st quarter, Jan 1st - March 31st
    2nd quarter, April 1st - June 30th
    3rd quarter, July 1st – September 30th
    4th quarter, October 1st – December 31st

    Make-up time will be offered to employees for late arrivals at the discretion of the supervisor. Employees must perform make-up time in the same work week as the tardy occurred. If the Employee performs the make-up time the tardy will not be counted against the Employee. Employees are required to schedule the make-up time with the supervisor. If the Employee fails to schedule and preform make-up time the tardy will be counted against the Employee."

  2. #2
    ewlsey is online now Diamond
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    4,780

    Default

    That's a tricky one.

    I really hate having to be some place at a specific time every day. The flip side is that I don't mind staying late or working odd hours.

    My personal feeling is to require the guys to work 8 hours. If they can't work 8 hours, they use some sort of flex time. That flex time might be paid or unpaid, it might be earned or given out in chucks, but it should have a limit, and it should be approved.

    For example, if a guy works 4 10 hour days, he has earned 2 hours each day of flex time. He can come in and work the 5th day for overtime, or cash in his 8 hours of flex time and take the day off.

    I realize that it can't work like this everywhere. Some jobs require that everyone be there are the same time, or that someone be there every day. However, I always err to the side of flexibility.

  3. #3
    Peter. is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    England UK
    Posts
    862

    Default

    Seems a reasonable shop policy. On site I use the following:

    "Go home and you can start practicing coming in on time tomorrow"

    Actually, I have a rule that everyone has the right to be late once in a while. I am very rarely late for work but it does sometimes happen if I 'm working long hours or changing my pattern. Habitual tardies get the above once in a while.

  4. #4
    digger doug is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    erie,pa
    Posts
    3,562

    Default

    Ours used to be 6 minutes docked for every minute late.

    Eriez magnetics (I have heard from people there)
    "you must call in before your shift time if your going to be late,
    3 strike's your fired" They tell me guys with 30 years service getting fired
    for being late the 3rd time.

    That's a bit harsh I think.

  5. #5
    Dualkit is online now Diamond
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Beaverdam, Virginia
    Posts
    4,439

    Default

    I am self employed, but when working for others I got many a perfect attendance bonus all while usually living an average of 40 miles from work. The common policy for a violation where I worked was any combination of 3 lates or sick (without a doctor note) in any 30 day period. I think 2 in a quarter getting a verbal warning is too strict. I would try a combination of reward \ punishment. Six in a quarter earning a suspension seems ok. I think you need to alter it a bit. Getting a warning on 2 infractions could anger a good employee. I don't know what traffic conditions are like in your area, where I moved from a bad freeway wreck could stop traffic dead for two hours. I always allowed an extra 30 minutes for my hour commutes and was still late from time to time.

  6. #6
    CarbideBob is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Jan 2007
    Location
    Flushing/Flint, Michigan
    Posts
    2,861

    Default

    I have something similar.
    We don't have defined quarters, it is a rolling 90 day period.

    I used to give days off without pay.
    Those that could afford it did not care, "So I got two days off work, fine with me, I'm going fishing".
    Then I talked to the state about what I could legally do.
    Now the policy is two days at minimum wage.
    You still have to be here and make the rates but you don't get paid jack-shit for working your butt off.

    I do give a +/- 20 minute starting time. Come in early and leave early.
    It's hard to time your commute to work to the second and I hated seeing people just sitting in the lunch room for 15 minutes waiting for 7:00 to arrive.
    A waste of everybody's time.

    This can be a pain to work out in a multi-shift operation and we had to program the computer to keep track of it all.
    Bob
    gbent, Greg White and Ox like this.

  7. #7
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    That's a tricky one.

    I really hate having to be some place at a specific time every day. The flip side is that I don't mind staying late or working odd hours.

    My personal feeling is to require the guys to work 8 hours. If they can't work 8 hours, they use some sort of flex time. That flex time might be paid or unpaid, it might be earned or given out in chucks, but it should have a limit, and it should be approved.

    For example, if a guy works 4 10 hour days, he has earned 2 hours each day of flex time. He can come in and work the 5th day for overtime, or cash in his 8 hours of flex time and take the day off.

    I realize that it can't work like this everywhere. Some jobs require that everyone be there are the same time, or that someone be there every day. However, I always err to the side of flexibility.
    Our shop is a small shop and one guy (besides me) has a key. He get's here at 7:30 to turn on the lights, compressors, and warmup the cnc's, he also get's to leave 30 minutes early. I lock up each day, so If I wanted to conform to others schedules I would have to adjust my schedule to accomidate theirs. Hardly seems fair to me, the owner, to have to adjust my schedule for one guy. It would be an acceptable solution if I had a bigger company with multiple shifts, etc.

    Even so I don't think it would work. The guy that opens the shop got a minor injury that had him off work for two weeks right after new years. I have to drop our little one off at grammies house in the morning so I can't get to work until 8:15 - 8:30. To be safe I told everyone to come in at 8:30AM until the guy that opens the shop was back to work. You would think that after starting work at 8:00 for so long that these guys could get here by 8:30 no problem, but they were just as late as usual.

  8. #8
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Dualkit View Post
    I am self employed, but when working for others I got many a perfect attendance bonus all while usually living an average of 40 miles from work. The common policy for a violation where I worked was any combination of 3 lates or sick (without a doctor note) in any 30 day period. I think 2 in a quarter getting a verbal warning is too strict. I would try a combination of reward \ punishment. Six in a quarter earning a suspension seems ok. I think you need to alter it a bit. Getting a warning on 2 infractions could anger a good employee. I don't know what traffic conditions are like in your area, where I moved from a bad freeway wreck could stop traffic dead for two hours. I always allowed an extra 30 minutes for my hour commutes and was still late from time to time.
    Were near chicago, but far enough away that it's mostly small towns and rural areas.

    I have a 5 min grace period built in to the computer, and the guy that opens get's here at 7:30. I have no problem with employees punching in early and starting to work early, so there not sitting around waiting for the clock. I also put in the make-up time thing so if they are late but willing to make it up there are no consequences.

    I also have no problem with a tardiness that's unavoidable like the occasional freeway accident. The last excuse used was "well my car door was froze then I stopped for a coffee and the guy in front of me was telling the cashier his life story that's why I'm 20 min late." Hello, if your door was froze and you were already running late maybe getting to work instead of stopping for coffee would be top priority.

  9. #9
    Bobw's Avatar
    Bobw is online now Diamond
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    Hatch, NM Chile capital of the WORLD
    Posts
    5,475

    Default

    Tardies are a pain in the ass. Some days it doesn't matter, other days it just kills you.

    I had one lady, the only day she was on time was the first day, 7am, then she would show up at 7:30, so we moved her start time to
    7:30... then 8. Even with the new start times, she still wasn't ever on time, after many warnings, she got the ultimatum, we'll move you
    to part time and you can show up at 10... Never saw her again.

    Had a guy, he was a good guy, worked pretty darn well for me, he just could never get up in the morning. Moved him to a later shift,
    11a to 9p and at times 1p-11p. Worked out well, he got to keep his after mid night bed time, but only had a few hours to drink, and if he overdid it,
    he had time to recover in the morning. He was a guy I could trust to do everything... except get up in the morning.

    The guys you have coming in late occasionally, their numbers are probably up due to the ones that are ALWAYS late. They don't get in trouble,
    so screw it, I'm having another coffee or stopping for biscuits and gravy. Bust the worst offenders and the rest will fall in line quickly.

    Also go to a rolling period, otherwise you will get a rash of Tardies at the start of every quarter. Of course you will wipe the slate clean with
    the start of the new policy and will get a rash of tardies right off the bat.

    I would also get rid of any language about the Tardy not being counted. You'll quickly get rid of the crap and then you probably won't have to
    worry about it.

  10. #10
    countryboy1966 is offline Cast Iron
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Location
    Thompson, Ohio
    Posts
    316

    Default

    I think giving them a 5 minute grace period promotes the idea that it is ok to to come in late.

    The best part is I would bet you will not fire any of your guys for being late. Not enough machinists to go around and the business side of you would say its better than nothing at all.

    Good luck as we are all there or been there and done that.

  11. #11
    ewlsey is online now Diamond
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Location
    Peoria, IL
    Posts
    4,780

    Default

    Ed, are you implying that you (the shop owner) only work 8 hours a day? I guess flex time would not work in that case.

  12. #12
    mjk
    mjk is online now Stainless
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Wilmington DE USA
    Posts
    1,381

    Default

    As noted above, you probably won't fire anybody because you need them.
    I would "weaken" the penalities for being late and add bonuses for attendance.
    Regardless it has to be in writing with "proof" that all the employees understand.

    I've always had a near perfect on time record when I worked for someone else, evan when weather was bad. Its not that hard to understand when there is a few inches of snow, it will take at least another minute to drive 10 miles.

    My only time I was late I made the mistake of telling the supervisor what really happened.
    I had woke up earlier than normal, got ready for work and realized I still had a half hour to kill.
    Made the mistake of sitting in the recliner....just for a minute.
    Well I wake up an hour later and panic to get to work.
    I tell the boss "I'm late because I woke up early!"
    As soon as I said it(in front of my coworkers, I realized I should have just said sorry, I overslept.
    Still hear about it 30 years later when I run into peolple that were there.

  13. #13
    screensnot is offline Hot Rolled
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    SE Michigan, USA
    Posts
    584

    Default

    As long as I'm not late more than twice a day, I don't get yelled at too much.

    I'm already working more hours than I'd like. The boss knows that if he tries to squeeze too many out of me, I'll run down, and catch some mysterious disease for a few days.

    I get there at 6 or 6:15 most mornings. Sometimes 7, but rarely after 7:30. I work until I feel like I've done a good days work, and am at a good spot to quit for the day. I don't like stopping in the middle of something.
    John Welden and Greg White like this.

  14. #14
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobw View Post
    Tardies are a pain in the ass. Some days it doesn't matter, other days it just kills you.

    The guys you have coming in late occasionally, their numbers are probably up due to the ones that are ALWAYS late. They don't get in trouble,
    so screw it, I'm having another coffee or stopping for biscuits and gravy. Bust the worst offenders and the rest will fall in line quickly.

    Also go to a rolling period, otherwise you will get a rash of Tardies at the start of every quarter. Of course you will wipe the slate clean with
    the start of the new policy and will get a rash of tardies right off the bat.

    I would also get rid of any language about the Tardy not being counted. You'll quickly get rid of the crap and then you probably won't have to
    worry about it.
    You hit the nail on the head there. Sometimes we are slower than other times and I'm very lenient when were slow. The problem is after a slow period when we catch our next wave of work we need to get it done and make some money. Seems like these guys don't understand that and it seems like there always late when I have a bunch of work to do.

    The monkey see monkey doo effect is at play here too. The worst guy is causing the rest to slack on there punctuality. It's probably not helping that I don't usually get here unitl 8:30 and I actuall have to look to see if anyone was late. I do drive right by the shop in the AM on the way to drop the little one off, so I do see if the right cars are in the parking lot.

    I like the rolling period idea, just have to think of the proper wording.......

  15. #15
    Lassen Forge is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northeastern California
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Wow... Dickish? You're pretty lenient.

    We have a 5 minute grace period in the morning. You can show up early for coffee and donuts and cards in the break room, but you can't be late on the floor. On the 6th minute, you're docked 1/10 of an hour for each 6 minutes (or parts thereof) you're late.

    You're late more than 3 times, you get a verbal. By then, you've probably already talked to the floor sup or Superintendent to find out whats up. 4th time, you're written up. 5th time, you get some time on the beach without pay. 6 times... We really need someone who takes their job seriously, and obviously, you're not it. Here's your check, turn in your uniform and issue tools, and good luck.

    We do do flex schedules - some take public transit and the bus or train gets them there either really early or after the start of the shift - they can't help it. We try to give them the jobs that fit that - Shop warm-up, checking stock, firing up equipment, etc... or shutdown & safety after the rest of the workers are done... but it's based on the needs of the shop. We also let our office people do a "non-traditional" shift - like the bookkeeper who is a night owl, etc. - but even he gets there when he's supposed to. I've also had people come in late, and sent them home without pay for the day.

    We also have another unwritten rule - IF you call in and let the sup know you're gonna be late, and why, they have the limited option to not have it count against your "late count". The sup has to report this to his (or her) boss, and if it keeps happening, the sup loses that "gift" (stops favoritism)... or maybe his (her) job. Because they realize you-know-what DOES happen, and if an employee really DOES have an emergency that is out of their hands (the bathroom pipe burst and flooded the floor, or the childcare person got sick or whatever) they have a limited "out".

    We've had that system for decades, and it works. It may seem harsh to an outsider, but it's not a country club or an entitlement fest, it's a business, and you're here not as an ornament to look good, but to do your part to keep us running by being here and doing your job. We have decent pay and good bennies, so if you don't want to play by our rules, go somewhere else and play by theirs. And as a result - we have a damned good and dedicated workforce.

    Remember - you shouldn't have to bust their balls to get them to be there to earn a paycheck. If you do, one, they're giving YOU a headache you don't need, and two, they just don't give a rats you know what about the job or your shop.

    And... the guys who are always 15+ minutes late, or the 2 that were, jeez, 38 and 25% on-time (with 169 days late) - they're still there why?
    Edster, scadvice, wrustle and 8 others like this.

  16. #16
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ewlsey View Post
    Ed, are you implying that you (the shop owner) only work 8 hours a day? I guess flex time would not work in that case.
    I start at 8:30 and leave approx 6:30, but I'm the one closing down the shop turning off lights and machines and stuff, and making sure the doors and windows are locked. Kinda hard for someone to work when I'm shutting off the lights and machines. I'm here late enough that the guys that were late will have a chance to make it right though.

  17. #17
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by countryboy1966 View Post
    I think giving them a 5 minute grace period promotes the idea that it is ok to to come in late.

    The best part is I would bet you will not fire any of your guys for being late. Not enough machinists to go around and the business side of you would say its better than nothing at all.

    Good luck as we are all there or been there and done that.
    I've always had the start time in the computer set for 8:05 to give them the benifit of the doubt, I just never told them about it. The % on time figures I gave in my first post reflect the 8:05 start time.

    Our shop does mostly small lot production that repeats. We don't run a prototype shop where all we do are one offs or different jobs all the time. I do get one offs and new parts but the core of our work is small lot production. The guys in question are capable of sawing stock, deburring parts, loading machines, and general labor type jobs. The quy that opens the shop is an older toolmaker and does most of the setups but no programming, he doensn't get along with computers too good. I program jobs and do the initial fixture making and initial setups along with all the other fun stuff the owner/manager/secretary gets to do. So would you call these guys irreplaceable machinists?

  18. #18
    Edster is offline Titanium
    Join Date
    Feb 2003
    Location
    Illinois
    Posts
    3,363

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Lassen Forge View Post
    And... the guys who are always 15+ minutes late, or the 2 that were, jeez, 38 and 25% on-time (with 169 days late) - they're still there why?
    I ask myself the same question Mostly because I start at 8:30 and unless I check the time clock or there seriously late I don't know about it. Sometimes I didn't care if we were slow but it began biting me in the ass when we were busy and needed to get stuff out the door. I do bust their balls occasionally and they would get better but ultimatly return to their old habits. Make no mistake I do realize that I was part of the problem and I usually run a tight ship but I haven't been doing what I should have been doing in regard to discipline in this matter. This company policy is the first step in fixing the problem and I intent to stick with it to whatever (or whoever's) end.

  19. #19
    Lassen Forge is offline Aluminum
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Northeastern California
    Posts
    114

    Default

    Just don't fall into the trap of them telling you "you start at 8:30, so why can't I?" Remember... YOU'RE the boss... meaning you've done your time and it's part of the reward of having towed the line all those years to make the business successful.

    Awful Supervisor Story - I had inherited a trio of employees who were pretty flagrant rule-benders that got away with it for a long time, because their former boss (who had promoted out - go figure!!) was a slacker as well... I changed their paradigm by moving my desk to the production floor, and when I wasn't working in the shop, I was doing my paperwork there, instead of up in the front office. The look on their faces when I was there at my desk, and they wandered in 30+ minutes late thinking "I'd never know"... One started showing up 30 minutes before *my* shift (ended up being a mean poker player, BTW), the second showed up on time 99 44/100% of the time and production went up 15%, and the 3rd one (who also had a bad case of Cellphone-itis) requested (and got) a transfer. The story got back to me the reason for transfer was "I was too mean by enforcing the rules that (the former sup) never did..."

    Good luck!!!

  20. #20
    Tonytn36 is offline Diamond
    Join Date
    Dec 2007
    Location
    Southeastern US
    Posts
    4,835

    Default

    Our policy : You have a 3 min grace period after start of shift. After 3 tardies or leave earlies (combined) in a 12 month rolling year, you get a verbal. 4th in that 12 months and you get written up. 5th is 3 days off, no pay. 6 and you are escorted to your car and the gate by security. Same policy for absences, except it is termed "occurrences" since you may be out sick for several days in a row.

Page 1 of 9 123 ... LastLast

Bookmarks

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •