Is it ethical to do work for your customers competition? Simular parts but not exacaty the same. Companies are in the same fields of work.

If it's to a print, or specs provided by each, I don't see a problem. If you use info from one customer to make the identical part for their competition, you may get into trouble.
Jim

Each has there own design, I agree I would not share prints or would not make parts using there prints...I even told them not to ask as its not ethical.

If you were a trucking company, would you be upset if Kenworth sold to your competition?

Now, get back to work.

I've done work for Simmons chicken processing and Tyson chicken processing. Both had similar parts. I made the new parts like the sample and never suggested to Simmons " Well you know we could do this, and it works good because Tyson is doing it that way."

Get with it, and don't look back .

JAckal

I'd do it. I also have security provisions in my employee manual about keeping customer information secure and confidential, and I enforce them.

Yes it's ethical.

The fact they're both in the same line of business, isn't your problem.

If company B didn't trust you because company A is also a customer of yours, they wouldn't come knocking.

I make it a rule, NEVER EVER to discuss my clients with each other, and on the odd occasion when those that ask about another customer, they get a firm though polite - 'I don't discuss your business with them, likewise I will not dicuss theirs with you.'

On that subject, remember;- it's not your customers reputation you're gossiping about, it's your own, which will be on a fast one way trip down the tubes.

Back to ethics,........... ever heard of the free market?

Sure thing, just wouldn't help either one in what I may know about each others products.
Make sure you don't accidently ship one's parts to the other competitor haha.

If either one of them finds out and doesn't like it, well you're still left with 1 customer either way, ideally the one that pays best.

Hell yaass......

How about this.....
If you don't think it's ethical...your competition most likely will...
Ethics went out way before Nixon got caught...

I even make parts for MY competitors. It's to their advantage, because I'm tooled up for the parts better than anyone else, and know how to make them right with no experimentation.

I do work for my competitors and my customers competitors. Haven't lost a business relationship from it yet.

That is interesting. Tyson was quite anal about us (former employer) doing work for their competitors. IIRC, they even made us sign an agreement to that effect.

If someone is willing to pay for engineering I do not share the drawings or the parts.

If a customer expects us to absorb development costs then we own the design. The parts are for sale to anyone with money.

3t3d's Kenworth analogy applies.

I have an automotive customer that we make tooling for. Depending on the job, the customer may ask up to 4 of our other customers/competitors (same 4 every time) to do certian jobs. The 4 then call us to actually quote these jobs since it's a bit of a niche for us. We then quote the same job to 4 different customers/competitors, who all know we are quoting to the other guys. We know we are getting the job anyway and when there are specific desigin questions we call the original customer that knows we are doing the job in the end anyway, and knows all 4 of their suppliers are coming to us to actually do the work. Ocasionally they actully tell the 4 to make sure we are doing the work. We still get other work from these 4 but it all seems to a rather strange arrangement.

A flow diagram could be handy to follow the above post.

doug6949,

They never worried about the stuff we did. None of it was high tech. Most of the things were back dock rollers for rolling the chicken coops off of the truck and going through the kill room.

UHMW shock/stun tanks, neck stretchers, throat slitters, leg hooks to hang them on the overhead conveyor for internal inspection, skate conveyors, ice augers & shafts for the packing room. Nothing really complicated.


JAckal

Another way to look at it: what will your customer think when (and its likely they will) find out about it?

My business is a bit different - consulting - but when in doubt I've given my customer a call. The conversation usually goes, I just wanted to check in with you -- xxx has asked me to take on some work. As far as I can tell . . . there's no downside for you (no way we'd ever swap info, non-conflicting areas, etc.) and maybe an upside (in your case, maybe able to afford better equipment etc.). Obviously, you don't take work on when there's a conflict.

You have to judge whether to make that call, but the conversation has never gone bad and in a couple of times it seemed to either indirectly strengthen the relationship or even lead to an extra piece of business.

I also believe in that rule. I also have proprietary knowledge about one customer's operation. Running to their competition could be extremely damaging to them and they know that. I do prototype and R & D work for them.

It would be a different story if there was no proprietary knowledge involved and straight forward parts were made from detailed prints.

Jim

I was having a process done to parts we made. So was a competitor.

We were very happy with the result. I guess the competitor was too, because a while later, that competitor asked (demanded?) the shop to sign a exclusive agreement. The shop did, and we had to look for someone else for that process.

At the time, we thought these guys were the best at what they did, but it turned out for the best, because we found someone even better.

I can't say for sure whether or not the shop that booted us out made the right decision for themselves or not. Possibly.

Sounds like your customer's procurement department makes them bid the work but the individual you are working for knows you are the most capable/most efficient at making the tooling. Sometimes it's easier to play along with the procurement folks which results in the arrangement described above than to make the case that the tooling needs to be single sourced due to unique technical knowledge.

Doug,

Your point is a good one. Would it be a good idea to put that in your contracts? Something like:

"Drawings and information that are supplied by customer to Doug's Machine Shop stamped or marked 'Confidential' are confidential and the information on these drawings remains the property of the customer. Documents, drawings, and the information on documents, drawings, and electronic files, created by Doug's Machine Shop or its agent(s) to facilitate and complete the work herein (including, but not limited to drawings of fixtures, CNC programming, and work process flow) shall be considered machining and engineering know-how, and are the property of Doug's Machine Shop. Customer acknowledges that any product design improvements suggested by Doug's Machine Shop, whether or not implemented, are the property of Doug's Machine Shop".

Perhaps something like this is in most standard contracts anyway.
Of course, if the customer wants exclusivity, they can pay for it.

Of course, in today's world getting wording like this may be hard.

Jim