Drowning in work, if only we could find some employees

Shop is Orange County, Southern California. We are just overflowing with as much work as we want, but finding qualified guys has been a nightmare. We're a pretty good sized shop and been around for 30 years, grown to over 40 cncs, and we have so much more growth potential but the only thing holding us back is the lack of knowledgeable employees. I know a lot of other shops in the area that are doing well are having similar issues, but I can't help but think there's something we're missing in our hiring tactics. With the type of work we are getting, we're prepared to pay very well if only the right people were interested. Seems a lot of people are happy where they are and theres just a shortage in general. I could use some fresh ideas on how to attract people to come work for us. We've got an opening for almost every position; CNC mill setup, lathe setup, programmer, night shift inspectors, shop supervisor, you get the picture. The one that's really killing us is night shift inspector though, we're down to 1 night shift inspector and it doesn't even come close to cutting it for the number of first articles we run per day. Same goes for mill setups, we can't setup machines fast enough to keep them all running. Incase it wasn't obvious, were a job shop doing a lot of aerospace, so we're shipping loads of unique PNs per month. Not the type of work for your general "button pusher".

At this point, if anybody out there has the answer to our problems it is probably considered a trade secret, competitive advantage etc, but we're dying for some help on this one. I'm all ears for any advise.

Have you considered starting a training program rather than "search" for those with the qualifications and skills you want?

If it is a "local" problem then several (of course as many as possible) of the shops should reach an agreement with technical colleges and schools to implement training programs.

You seem to be wanting something for nothing. If you pay more than shops around you then you'll all end up just stealing from each other.

I'm with ya. I think, though, that for the most part unless you can pay people really well (not competitively, genuinely well) and have a really top notch place, you're better off building employees from scratch than trying to recruit them. Somebody has to do it.

Are you advertising the pay? This is what I personally, and what I have seen here, hate the most about job ads, no pay advertised, or it says "competitive". Competitive with who, Wal-Mart, trailer factories, production cnc?? Aside from that, I don't know. It seems to be every ones problem. Although I will say it is odd that this topic comes up all the time, but then you see the ones about cell phones and how there are shops that are like "I don't care how good you are, no cellphone at work and if I catch you BOOM FIRED!"

What are the results of your exit interviews on people that are leaving? IMHO you have to trun the tide around there first. Get it right and the good guys will come and find you!

I don't know your entire situation. In a nutshell, you'll have to offer something that other companies aren't offering: sign-on bonus, piece-work bonus, bonus to employees (or anyone) who recruits a future employee. Money is very motivating.

IMHO Part of problem is the Tax and Government Regulation of private life..
Seems like there are more people moving out of Calif. then moving in..
Qualified people always the first to leave they can find work almost any were..
The monetary burden of moving into the state doesn't seem to end.. Up grading a car to smog
standards being 1 part.. The list is pretty long I looked into it about 5 yrs. ago
I'm sure its no better now..

Good Luck finding People..

Steve

Advertising acutal pay is a big plus. If I'm a talented guy searching for a job, I don't want to waste a ton of my time only to find out that 'competitive' means 'slightly more than floor mopper pay' to that particular company. Post a dollar amount that you think is fair for the qualifications you've asked for. Potential employee doesn't meet those qualifications? Negotiate to bring him on for less, or pass on him.

To those saying train on the job- maybe for a CNC guy, but certainly not for a night inspector doing first articles interspersed with 40 CNC's worth of first pieces. That's a pressure cooker environment, and especially on night shift you need a guy that is totally independent, with excellent judgement. Hiring the wrong guy could leave you a lot worse off than if you just limped along with one inspector.

I agree with what has already been stated by everyone - advertise the pay and you will find the help.

As far as "stealing" from someone else - that's business. It's competition. Why does a customer select one vendor over another? Is it stealing for someone to be cheaper, faster, better? It's the same with employees. Why does someone work at employer "B" rather than employer "A"? It's because someone has more and better to offer.

I have had a lot of jobs over the years - the latest one for over 20 years. But I kept moving around to better my situation. Make yours a better situation and you will likely solve your problem.

One thing that EVERY company that has hired me has told me prior to accepting a position:

"Our salaries are generous." EVERY. SINGLE. ONE.

Not a single one of them, actually WAS "generous" (ie, they all paid about the going rate). One of the companies I worked for was EXTREMELY generous to "fresh out of school" kids, but I was hired in as an experienced guy, and my salary was smack in the middle of the bell curve for local engineering salaries.

My point is, if you are having trouble pulling in qualified people, your "competitive" or "generous" compensation packages may not be all that you think.

Here is a thought, skills and experience are synominous with age. Older, retired people, are finding that their retirements are not as adequate as they once were and want a bit of outside work on the side. Maybe not full-time, but a few hours a week. I suggest you build a plan that embraces their requirement. I think you will also find that their work ethics are significantly superior to younger people. They have much less distractions in their private life and they will usually have some health plan already, which makes them a bit less expensive. Just a thought...........

I taught a class a few years ago in Oakland CA at a well know Blacksmith shop near Oakland CA who does a lot of ornamental iron work and the owner told me he started to advertise in the local Spanish speaking newspaper. He said they still teach Shop in Mexican High Schools and ended up hiring a very good man and a few months later he hired this guys 2 younger brothers. He said he hired a couple of local young guys who did not know how to work and these immigrants were hard workers and dependable. A bit sad, there are a lot of jobs out there and know one wants to work. A friend of mine here in MN has his wife come in and do 2nd op work. Rich

stoubia said:

Shop is Orange County, Southern California. We are just overflowing with as much work as we want, but finding qualified guys has been a nightmare. We're a pretty good sized shop and been around for 30 years, grown to over 40 cncs, and we have so much more growth potential but the only thing holding us back is the lack of knowledgeable employees. I know a lot of other shops in the area that are doing well are having similar issues, but I can't help but think there's something we're missing in our hiring tactics. With the type of work we are getting, we're prepared to pay very well if only the right people were interested. Seems a lot of people are happy where they are and theres just a shortage in general. I could use some fresh ideas on how to attract people to come work for us. We've got an opening for almost every position; CNC mill setup, lathe setup, programmer, night shift inspectors, shop supervisor, you get the picture. The one that's really killing us is night shift inspector though, we're down to 1 night shift inspector and it doesn't even come close to cutting it for the number of first articles we run per day. Same goes for mill setups, we can't setup machines fast enough to keep them all running. Incase it wasn't obvious, were a job shop doing a lot of aerospace, so we're shipping loads of unique PNs per month. Not the type of work for your general "button pusher".

At this point, if anybody out there has the answer to our problems it is probably considered a trade secret, competitive advantage etc, but we're dying for some help on this one. I'm all ears for any advise.

Click to expand...

You are your own problem. Stop tring to steel employees and train your own from the ground up.

I like the training idea, but it might be too little too late....you could add zeros, pay more.....or if you're in an area that doesn't have the talent or its too expensive, get the work to a location that does have the talent. - find a partner in the rust belt to outsource to, make an acquisition or go greenfield with a new facility.....the problem you describe and the probable solution sounds strategic - ie its the major impediment to the business growth and re-wording your want ad isn't going to cut it. So it needs a strategic solution:

upnorth5axis said:

You are your own problem. Stop tring to steel employees and train your own from the ground up.

Click to expand...

Our problems around here aren't even training. It's trying to find folks who want to even show up to an interview and stay around long enough to get trained.
Finding genuine work ethic is getting very difficult. Folks show up late, spend hours on their phone, or can't pass a simple drug test.
Almost all our local companies are willing to train... If they find candidates worth training. And these are small to large companies with pay scales starting greenhorns in the $15 area but moving up to the $30 per hour range.

upnorth5axis said:

You are your own problem. Stop tring to steel employees and train your own from the ground up.

Click to expand...

and then, I'll steal them

upnorth5axis said:

You are your own problem. Stop tring to steel employees and train your own from the ground up.

Click to expand...

Humans aren't property and can't be stolen, regardless of what some business owners would like to think.

Our trade is so cyclical in nature that a lot of people who were in the trade left and are not coming back. They got tired of being laid off every 5 or 10 years and are not coming back for any amount of money.

I think the only answer to the OP is to hire and train their own employees or take on less work.

hiring

stoubia said:

Shop is Orange County, Southern California. We are just overflowing with as much work as we want, but finding qualified guys has been a nightmare. We're a pretty good sized shop and been around for 30 years, grown to over 40 cncs, and we have so much more growth potential but the only thing holding us back is the lack of knowledgeable employees. I know a lot of other shops in the area that are doing well are having similar issues, but I can't help but think there's something we're missing in our hiring tactics. With the type of work we are getting, we're prepared to pay very well if only the right people were interested. Seems a lot of people are happy where they are and theres just a shortage in general. I could use some fresh ideas on how to attract people to come work for us. We've got an opening for almost every position; CNC mill setup, lathe setup, programmer, night shift inspectors, shop supervisor, you get the picture. The one that's really killing us is night shift inspector though, we're down to 1 night shift inspector and it doesn't even come close to cutting it for the number of first articles we run per day. Same goes for mill setups, we can't setup machines fast enough to keep them all running. Incase it wasn't obvious, were a job shop doing a lot of aerospace, so we're shipping loads of unique PNs per month. Not the type of work for your general "button pusher".

At this point, if anybody out there has the answer to our problems it is probably considered a trade secret, competitive advantage etc, but we're dying for some help on this one. I'm all ears for any advise.

Click to expand...

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some places are more picky about hiring than they realize finding "qualified" people. we had somebody interview who said he did just about everything but could not name what type of parts well enough to please interview person. i said most people are nervous in a interview and do not always come up with the best answers on short notice and anybody hired is under 90 day evaluation to see how they work out anyway. this was a ex navy guy and i know many do do a lot of various types of jobs on navy repair ships.
.... or i went to a job interview as a mastercam programmer and they give me a hand writing a gcode program with cutter wear comp using pencil and paper and no reference info like gcode list or sample program. so i did not do good enough on a hand writing programming test that i was not prepared for and that was not mentioned in the job posting or i would have practiced up on it. took me less than a hour after job interview to practice up and then be able to hand write a gcode program with pencil and paper
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i am just saying i have personally seen very bad job interviewing decisions. my boss has been hiring people who are hearing empared supposedly because cannot find people. guy stalls grinding wheel so not even turning and does not even realize it. they interviewed another guy who seem experienced but they did not want to pay more than $18/hr. i think some management is stuck in the 1980's pay wise and their competitive pay is actually fairly low. but most management only raise pay rates based on how many people are leaving jobs to work for other companies.
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for myself i was a maintenance machinist and i got a job as a $20/hr CNC setup operator with some programming occasionally needed. i passed my 90 day evaluation even with training for 60 days. could have trained in less time as after 30 days my trainer was mostly sitting at a bench reading a newspaper.
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after 18 months transferred to cnc setup operator on a big cnc gantry mill machining parts in the 1 to 10 ton range. i was trained for 1 month and 2nd month somebody was on a nearby machine to ask questions if i was unsure of something. at end of 2nd month i was working alone and nobody else around for any help. now after 3 years (only 18 months on gantry mill) and senior machinist retiring i will be the primary machinist on the big cnc gantry mill.
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i am just saying. they gave me a chance only after the kid they originally hired failed a drug test 60 days after they hired him and only hired a older guy probably out of frustration problems in training somebody just out of school who worked at cheaper pay. like on job interview i am literally walked out of the abruptly ended job interview because i am not good enough and yet where i work now after 3 years and 4 pay raises i am a senior machinist because they made a better hiring decision and gave me a chance at the job.
..... if you cannot find people i suggest you get different hiring decision making people

upnorth5axis said:

You are your own problem. Stop tring to steel employees and train your own from the ground up.

Click to expand...

I've advertised once, ever, and it was a miserable experience... Tried the Department of Labor once also, they will send anybody
with a pulse over... Huge waste of time.

Occasionally you will find somebody with skills, but its rare...

Train 'em from the ground up, and where do you get them???? You steal them... That kid down at the Autozone, he wants
to play with mechanical things, and build things, so he gets a job that gets him closest to that, at an auto parts store..
This kid has not a clue that what we do even exists, and if he does, he doesn't know how to break into it... I didn't when
I was younger.

Steal him, if you go in there quite a bit, you know how he works, you know their work ethic....

I keep a mental list of people that I could go steal... The girl down at the donut shop, kid at the hardware store
that is always helpful and interested in why you need 6 o-rings, lapping compound and a spatula.

Welders are another good one to steal.. They want to play with mechanical stuff and make stuff but they don't
do machining classes in a lot of places anymore, so they go into welding..

Just my 2 cents....

Also helps to have a good work environment.. Treating your employees well costs absolutely not a penny, but
it pays huge dividends.. And that jerk everybody hates, and you can't get rid of him because you need him...
You Don't NEED him... He's dragging everybody down. Its amazing how once the dead weight is gone, everybody else steps up.