Thread: Health Insurance--costing more than your raise every year

Originally Posted by Mebfab

Who are the top paid CEO's in the world???? If they are so good you would think they could keep the cost down.

I assume you're referring to Insurance company CEOs?

If so, this is not their job. Their job is to make the stock ticker go up. It is the consumer's job to make the costs go down.

Originally Posted by smalltime

I assume you're referring to Insurance company CEOs?

If so, this is not their job. Their job is to make the stock ticker go up. It is the consumer's job to make the costs go down.

Exactly how is the consumer able to make the costs go down?

Originally Posted by rj newbould

Exactly how is the consumer able to make the costs go down?

Dont get sick.... then the supply/demand rules may kick in...
then certain remedies may end up on the daily special chalkboard...

But really, a start would be removing the laws in place that require you to buy insur from a "local" agent..
You should be able to buy insur accross state lines... maybe a few more rules I dont know about need 86ing

Healthcare is a neccesity. The CEO's job is to make the ticker go up! By making MORE MONEY. Our money.

If you are allowed to act as a hydraulic despot over the citizens of the US on a true neccesity, your company should be nationalized. I have never been robbed by a gang banger, and have had minor theft issues with the local scarp thieves. But nobody has taken advantage of me the way a man in a tie has.

We are not talking fuel here. At least with fuel you can mass transit, better fuel economy car, carpool, walk, water/rail ship, etc. Might be tough and might cause a lot of heartache. But healthcare! Dont want to pay, then die.

Originally Posted by tdmidget

certainly it's Obamacare. He decreed that "children" up to age 26 must be covered, didn't he? Did he say how that would be paid for? I am a union millwright. My employers pay a fixed rate fer hour contractually for my health and welfare. I like many, put my daughter on my coverage. But the hourly rate stayed the same. So we have had to give up dental and vision coverage, our deductables have doubled, copays have doubled, and we are still in the hole.
This is one of the major flaws with this scheme. Benefits are dereed but no mechanism to pay for it. This kind of retarded thinking is why were are so far in debt.

Obamacare doesnt "decree" that children up to 26 "must" be covered.
What it says is, if YOU want to, you can pay the insurance company, and they have to keep your kid on your policy.

Totally different. Its much cheaper for me to pay the premium for my 21 year old on my policy, than it would for him to get his own policy.
So this program saves me money.

But, of course, my perspective is from someone who has never had a company pay for my health care- I have always had to pay out of my own pocket for my health insurance. So I have a better idea of what things cost than somebody whose company just deals with it all and deducts an amount from your paycheck.
I also have a very high deductible, so for about 80% of my health care, I just pay it, myself, out of pocket. Hence I do shop around, I do ask doctors what things cost (they never know- they say, go ask at the front desk) and I do decide not to do things, or to do different things, based on cost.

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

No matter whose "fault" it is then it's an American problem so I'll just shut up There's no point in rubbing salt in an open wound

Gordon

You (USA) have the most expensive health care in the world but sadly, not the best. OK, that was a pinch of salt

You are correct Gordon, it's because in the US, healthcare is a business. Unfortunately the insurance companies and the health care companies ( referred to as hospitals ) work together to maximize investor return, not to maximize patient care.

I have to admit however that we still fair better than most third world countries in health care but it's surprising how many people are traveling to Thailand, India, etc. to get better treatment for less money for serious procedures like heart surgery.

Bernard

Originally Posted by rj newbould

I just read a recent study/article about the primary cause of this relatively new obesity problem. In short, HFCS (high fructose corn syrup).

Why are we getting fat? Who's the "we"?

A very obese woman was crossing the street, a car approaches and hits her.
She, "Didn't you see me?"
Driver, "Yes, but I didn't think I had enough gas to drive around you"

Gordon

Originally Posted by BC21OSH

I have to admit however that we still fair better than most third world countries in health care but it's surprising how many people are traveling to Thailand, India, etc. to get better treatment for less money for serious procedures like heart surgery.

Bernard

Maybe they can't afford the USA?

Gordon

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

...

USA is in last place

► In 2009 USA used $8,000 per person on healthcare. This is much more than any other developed country in the world. Japan used 1/3 of that amount and Norway and Switzerland 2/3.

► Despite the cost the USA is in bottom place among 12 highly developed industrial nations.

► USA has fewer doctors than other countries and fewer hospital beds.

► USA hospitals are nevertheless among the most expensive in the world.

► Higher prices and more use of technology are part of the reason for the price difference.

Source: The Commonwealth Fund in New York from an investigation of 12 industrial countries.
....

One would like to think that someone with a background in QC would know better than to quote averages in a system that is full of outliers at the top end.
Easy to twist this data to fit your agenda. Simple calculations like this are always wrong.
This is the crap that drives me nuts and is used to influence people not accustomed to crunching data.

The internet was supposed to help empower people with more information. This was the admittedly naive goal of the people that put it together.
Unfortunately it is used to prove one side of the axe to grind and it drives me nuts to see people "buy into" the stuff online without going deeper.

Bob

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

Maybe they can't afford the USA?

Gordon

Gordan, actually that was the case. The news article I watched followed two guys that were self employed and had shopped prices for the procedures they needed. They found that they could get better care, i.e., all nurses on the unit were trained RN's, the doctors were trained at some of the best schools and the facilities are top notch and with the cost of the flight over still save $K's. The facilities are more like 5 star hotels then hospitals but they are marketing this way to draw these patients from the US.

Bernard

[QUOTE=Gary E;1827516]What do I base my conclusions on? pay attention to the news and what the dems are doing....


What are they doing? This is the point I am trying to make and you fall in deeper. You don't "get" anything unless you can explain it is exactly what you get? You are no different than any of those that blame the dems and the president. You want spending cuts then tell us what you want to cut while you insist on continually giving breaks to the ones that don't need it to survive. Where are the jobs promised by you complainers on the right? You were going to change all that when you took the house.

So now try again and tell me what you "get".

[QUOTE=AlDrake;1827616]

Originally Posted by Gary E

What do I base my conclusions on? pay attention to the news and what the dems are doing....


What are they doing? This is the point I am trying to make and you fall in deeper. You don't "get" anything unless you can explain it is exactly what you get? You are no different than any of those that blame the dems and the president. You want spending cuts then tell us what you want to cut while you insist on continually giving breaks to the ones that don't need it to survive. Where are the jobs promised by you complainers on the right? You were going to change all that when you took the house.

So now try again and tell me what you "get".

What I "get" ?... not so important

so the rpugnats have the HOUSE? so what ? WHO has the SENATE??

I believe they are BOTH DETRIMENTAL to the USA.... but just what do you want MORE of From OBABMA???
More people unemployed?
MORE Debt?
MORE people on FOOD STAMPS???

Name SOMETHING that he has only given you a taste of that you want more of ??

Originally Posted by Gary E

Name SOMETHING that he has only given you a taste of that you want more of ??

Health care reform.
Bob

Eventually American health care will be like every other industrialized nation in the world: socialized. No other way has ever proven to be sustainable long term.

Obesity in America will be the straw that breaks health care's back. It's funny how us arrogant Americans will eat, drink, and smoke to our heart's content. "Don't tell me how to live my life", is an American right. Then later in life, when the fat, smoker American needs a heart transplant, or extensive lung cancer treatment, or long-term diabetes treatment, the arrogant American expects all health care needed, irregardless of how it is paid for. And these _expensive_ treatments usually happen later in life, when the arrogant American is on Medicare. Ahhh, let every other working American pay for my treatments. What a joke....

And the funny part is, the health care industry and insurers have not only put the noose around their own necks, they are tightening that noose every year.

The sad part is anything ran by the US government is a cluster%&*#. Examples: Post Office, Amtrak, Homeland Security, Secret Service...

Originally Posted by rj newbould

Exactly how is the consumer able to make the costs go down?

Vote with their feet. Go someplace else that sells the product cheaper.

In healthcare the "consumer" is, effectively, the insurance companies. They pay for services (mostly) and choose the providers. It is they who make the deals with the hospitals and doctors. If a hospital is too expensive, they don't send patients there. If the hospital wants the business, they lower their prices.

I personally think the insurance companies are in the way. I would vote for H.S.A.s But this will never fly, because of the lobbying done by the opponents of such a system.

I suspect the health care industry will be quite willing to volunteer suggestions and initiatives to lower the cost of health care after November.

I don't plan to vote for ANY Republicans... But I do plan to vote. If any party's goal is primarily to make the other party look bad, they don't deserve to be in office.

Let them go off and run PACs, if they can't move government forward.

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

One would like to think that someone with a background in QC would know better than to quote averages in a system that is full of outliers at the top end.
Easy to twist this data to fit your agenda. Simple calculations like this are always wrong.
This is the crap that drives me nuts and is used to influence people not accustomed to crunching data.

The internet was supposed to help empower people with more information. This was the admittedly naive goal of the people that put it together.
Unfortunately it is used to prove one side of the axe to grind and it drives me nuts to see people "buy into" the stuff online without going deeper.

Bob

Bob, you write as if you think it was something I searched for on the net until I found something that suited me. As I wrote in my post it was in my national daily newspaper today (and it is right wing) and that just happened to have a 2 page piece on American health care.

You're more than welcome to find something that shows/proves otherwise. Your problem though will be that it's not me you have to convince. As far as I'm concerned you can have any health care system you want as long as I get to keep mine

Gordon

Merica! Greatest country on earth!

We have a trillion dollars a year to spend on defense, but can't find the money to take care of our own citizens health. So funny.

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

>>SNIP.......................so I'll just shut up....................

Gordon

Please do!!


Rex

Gordon,
I have not the time or desire to teach you how to twist the numbers.
As I said, as a QC professional I'm sure you know how this is done.

If you had 50 million in your bank account and were very sick where would you go?
How can anyone doubt that we have the top end if you have the money?
Really....., given unlimited cash is there anywhere better than the US?
This distorts the curve and makes simple average numbers worthless. Where you paying attention in Stats 301?

Yes our system is distorted towards big money.
This makes me not like it. Your system may be in fact much more fair for the population.

People will complain that a CEO pulls in 20 million a year while being in charge of a few thousand employes. Yet three of my neighbors in the medical side will pull more than this down with 20 total employees between all of them.

You will give up all you have to stay alive and our system encourages this.
Cry as you will but we have a very large group of very wealthy people here.
Perhaps the curse of being number one.

Applying averages and simple calcs to this is not paying attention and shows a basic understanding of the underlying math.
There are three types of liars, any QC guy pays attention to this basic rule.
This stuff is natural to me, I am good enough with the numbers that I can justify any point that I want. I also know enough to not trust most simple observations.
This is not a simple math problem, too many if, and, or's and but's. I can argue both sides very well.

Yes, we have a pucked up system. Do not quote the world false numbers. This does not help.

Weird thing is that I agree, your system works better than what we are doing.
Bob