Thread: Health Insurance--costing more than your raise every year

Originally Posted by Gary E

...but I dont see that happening untill the intire system colapses

Perhaps you were in the bog or such and missed it ... but for many folks, it already has... Just running downslope on inertia now.

Bill

[QUOTE=AlDrake;1827616]

Originally Posted by Gary E

What do I base my conclusions on? pay attention to the news and what the dems are doing....


What are they doing? This is the point I am trying to make and you fall in deeper. You don't "get" anything unless you can explain it is exactly what you get? You are no different than any of those that blame the dems and the president. You want spending cuts then tell us what you want to cut while you insist on continually giving breaks to the ones that don't need it to survive. Where are the jobs promised by you complainers on the right? You were going to change all that when you took the house.

So now try again and tell me what you "get".

They were supposed to get all the jobs for the American people, starting back in 2000! Their cornerstone economic job creation ideas did nothing except give us the 2008 crash. They (rep/cons) are advocating the SAME POLiCIES to improve the economy. Brilliant. Of course it will work THIS TIME, right? (sarcasm)

Any of the rep/cons explain all the enormous increases of insurance premiums PRIOR to Obama, yet? Or are they STILL trying to insinuate that he has somehow been responsible for those increases since the very beginning of health insurance? From skimming the responses, looks like the later...BIG surprise!

Originally Posted by bjorn toulouse

Please do!!

Rex

Why? What have I written you don't want to know? if you have a problem with me then it's your problem, not mine Put me on ignore, don't read what I post or just find a thread where you can give a relevant comment. Wow, did I just get personal?

This "town" is big enough for both of us Deal with it.

Gordon

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

Gordon,
I have not the time or desire to teach you how to twist the numbers.
As I said, as a QC professional I'm sure you know how this is done.

If you had 50 million in your bank account and were very sick where would you go?
How can anyone doubt that we have the top end if you have the money?
Really....., given unlimited cash is there anywhere better than the US?
This distorts the curve and makes simple average numbers worthless. Where you paying attention in Stats 301?

Yes our system is distorted towards big money.
This makes me not like it. Your system may be in fact much more fair for the population.

People will complain that a CEO pulls in 20 million a year while being in charge of a few thousand employes. Yet three of my neighbors in the medical side will pull more than this down with 20 total employees between all of them.

You will give up all you have to stay alive and our system encourages this.
Cry as you will but we have a very large group of very wealthy people here.
Perhaps the curse of being number one.

Applying averages and simple calcs to this is not paying attention and shows a basic understanding of the underlying math.
There are three types of liars, any QC guy pays attention to this basic rule.
This stuff is natural to me, I am good enough with the numbers that I can justify any point that I want. I also know enough to not trust most simple observations.
This is not a simple math problem, too many if, and, or's and but's. I can argue both sides very well.

Yes, we have a pucked up system. Do not quote the world false numbers. This does not help.

Weird thing is that I agree, your system works better than what we are doing.
Bob

Bob, you lost me somewhere. What numbers am I twisting and what false numbers? I translated an article I read in todays newspaper - no more no less. It seemed both coincidental and relevant.

To avoid any misunderstanding which post are you referring I've written that causes you to write what you do?

Gordon

Originally Posted by smalltime

Originally Posted by rj newbould

Exactly how is the consumer able to make the costs go down?

Vote with their feet. Go someplace else that sells the product cheaper.

In healthcare the "consumer" is, effectively, the insurance companies. They pay for services (mostly) and choose the providers. It is they who make the deals with the hospitals and doctors. If a hospital is too expensive, they don't send patients there. If the hospital wants the business, they lower their prices.

I personally think the insurance companies are in the way. I would vote for H.S.A.s But this will never fly, because of the lobbying done by the opponents of such a system.

You must mean leave the country. There's no big difference within a state and we're not allowed to shop out of state.. So then what?

That still does not answer the question if you want to stay in the USA.

Originally Posted by John Welden

Merica! Greatest country on earth!

We have a trillion dollars a year to spend on defense, but can't find the money to take care of our own citizens health. So funny.

It's not funny at all.
There is no reason for us to go after individuals and nation states who hate our way of life and attacked us on our soil, killing over 3000 people in one day and destroying a major symbol (formerly known as the World Trade Center) of the American system in one of our biggest and most important cities, not to mention they attacked the Pentagon.

We only spend 750 billion on Medicare and Medicaid, and health related expenses only account for 18 percent of GDP.
We should spend as much as it takes for every man, woman and child to have cradle to grave healthcare. It's not like we don't have the money. Oh, wait...

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

Gordon,
..................
You will give up all you have to stay alive and our system encourages this.
Cry as you will but we have a very large group of very wealthy people here.
Perhaps the curse of being number one.
..............
Weird thing is that I agree, your system works better than what we are doing.
Bob

I would not give all I have to stay alive. Plus, money alone will not do that. Think of Steve Jobs.

Yes, the system in Denmark is better. If there weren't so many people who would lose money if we copied it, it would happen here too. Greed keeps us where we are.

I had to stop reading this thread so I would make it to McDonalds before they close!

Originally Posted by ewlsey

That means that younger/healthier people pay for more than they use, and older/less healthy people pay less than they use. This is how all insurance works. More people in the insurance pool lowers the individual cost. The caveat is that everyone has to play along. Hence the laws requiring insurance.

That's the idea. Draw your own conclusions.

300,000,000 in the US.
How bigg'a pool would be required?


-------------

I am Ox and I approve this h'yah post!

For sake of argument, I will assume that the "Obama ruined everything" crowd are Republicans that have nothing bad to say about George W Bush.

Before he got into office, he said many things, some were apparently expedients, if not outright lies.

"No nation-building", remember that?

2 trillion dollars later, we are wrapping up 2 episodes of what seem to be nation-building, in an area of the world that while arguably "the birthplace of civilization", seems to prefer something other than civility.

Or, maybe more: Brown University study estimates cost of wars at $3.7 Trillion since 2001 : Three Trillion Dollar War

And you guys aren't angry about that?

Originally Posted by rj newbould

I just read a recent study/article about the primary cause of this relatively new obesity problem. In short, HFCS (high fructose corn syrup).

Unlike sugar it goes almost directly to fat in the body. Years ago when doctors were debating the cause of heart problems and there was a debate between sugar or fat being eaten was the problem causing obesity, they decided to blame fat.

You can lay that one directly at the feet of your protectionist 'free trade' people. Sugar is expensive because there are tariffs and quotas on its import, thereby inflating the domestic price.

Law of unanticipated consequences cannot be avoided....

PDW

That is correct about sugar prices. The video includes that fact. Also included is that the HFCS is actually made from the leftovers of processing the corn, which is a subsidized product. Meaning that the taxpayer is paying for a product that adds to the cost of life and is detrimental to health.

Pretty darn sad, if you ask me. Well, even if you don't ask me..

Originally Posted by S_W_Bausch

I suspect the health care industry will be quite willing to volunteer suggestions and initiatives to lower the cost of health care after November.

I don't plan to vote for ANY Republicans... But I do plan to vote. If any party's goal is primarily to make the other party look bad, they don't deserve to be in office.

Let them go off and run PACs, if they can't move government forward.

Vote and vote often. this is the democratic way.

Are you trying to say that the democratic party ISN'T all about making the republicans look bad?

You are living in a cave. Their leader has been laying the blame on a republican president for going on four years. Have a backbone will ya.

You all had the house, the Senate and the presidency for two years, what more do you want?

Do you actually think about what you post? This " buy across state lines" is a bullshit scheme that would raise rates, not lower them. It does not require any special brilliance to see that health risks vary by state and even county. Just check the CDC site and you will find that the lowest risk of heart disease, for example is in Minnesota and the highest is in Mississippi. Since rates are based on risk, health insurance is cheaper in Minnesota. But if you let every one in Mississippi buy in Minnesota it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that Minnesota rates will have to go up. Can't even you figure that out?

Also if it is all in state, I can call raleigh. If I have a problem A very nice person answers the phone and may or may not help me. THey work for the insurance commissioner.

But out of state? I suspect the feds, and a LAWYER will be needed. And in a battle of lawyers vs the insurance company a third party will loose. That third party is me.

Originally Posted by Ox

300,000,000 in the US.
How bigg'a pool would be required?

Well that would work.
Only question is how to you get everybody to ante up the cover charge at the front entrance to come to the party and stop those who are sneaking in the unlocked back doors.

How about making medical costs like taxes. Not covered by bankruptcy.
Hmmm... then we would just have to build a lot more jails and pay to hold em there.
Hey, we could fix them up and make them slaves of the state when they can't pay.
Then we could send them off to fight our wars at no cost. Kill two birds with one stone.
(This is sarcasm guys, no disrespect intended towards the great guys who lay it on all the line every day in our armed forces)
Bob

Originally Posted by tdmidget

Do you actually think about what you post? This " buy across state lines" is a bullshit scheme that would raise rates, not lower them. It does not require any special brilliance to see that health risks vary by state and even county. Just check the CDC site and you will find that the lowest risk of heart disease, for example is in Minnesota and the highest is in Mississippi. Since rates are based on risk, health insurance is cheaper in Minnesota. But if you let every one in Mississippi buy in Minnesota it should be obvious to anyone with half a brain that Minnesota rates will have to go up. Can't even you figure that out?

The insurance companies are currently able to figure this out and deal with it for car/home/property/malpractice and other insurance--what makes you think they can't do it with health insurance?

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

Well that would work.
Only question is how to you get everybody to ante up the cover charge at the front entrance to come to the party and stop those who are sneaking in the unlocked back doors.

How about making medical costs like taxes. Not covered by bankruptcy.
Hmmm... then we would just have to build a lot more jails and pay to hold em there.
Hey, we could fix them up and make them slaves of the state when they can't pay.
Then we could send them off to fight our wars at no cost. Kill two birds with one stone.
(This is sarcasm guys, no disrespect intended towards the great guys who lay it on all the line every day in our armed forces)
Bob

Maybe we could conscript them to be Doctors and Nurses, and fund our healthcare system that way?

Originally Posted by Neslob660

REALLY???? Do I really need to justify myself here? Let's get one thing straight.......I'm not fat. I'm 6'1" 225 lbs. Not the 195 I weighed at 25 but by no means fat.

I wonder, are you a smoker as well?
I am 6'3 and range between 205 and 224 at any given time and I am FAT.
I would not be fat if I got down to 185.
Not sure about your 'build' but I'd bet you are fat...... er, 'overweight' as well.
Problem is, John Q Public today does not know what fat is anymore. And he does not know what a 'normal' size food portion is, or does not care.

As RJ posted, HFCS is POISON as are the excessive levels of sodium Americans consume on a daily basis.
Repeat: HFCS is POISON and an EVIL that food companies have pushed onto consumers.

Enhanced amounts of highly addictive nicotine should be illegal in cigarettes.
Excessive amounts of HFCS and sodium should be illegal in Soda and a myriad of other consumer food products.

Until this problem is recognized and dealt with, the general health of the American public will continue to deteriorate
at an increasing rate. Together with smoking it will drive insurance rates UPWARD.

As an aside......I have nearly completely cut out all sugary drinks ( I cheat a little) and I feel much better overall.
I drink LOTS of water instead every day. And a 'few' beers now and then too.....
I try hard(er) now to be aware of excessive sodium as well. I know I still get WAY too much HFCS and sodium just on average even while trying to avoid excessive amounts of it.

Once you know the numbers for averages of sodium and sugars, and 'suggested daily minimum requirements' .........do a little reading on the backs of your favorite boxes of packaged, canned, and processed foods at the supermarket, and if you realize what you are reading, you WILL be shocked and maybe even scared a bit.........and you should be.
The numbers are staggeringly excessive.

Oh, and I despise all forms of tobacco, never touched the stuff.
Never had the urge to inhale smoke...does not seem natural or a good idea.