Thread: Health Insurance--costing more than your raise every year

Ok here are 2 instances that I have encountered personaly,

1,... go to my dentist with insurance X-rays cost $30. get laid off no dental insurance go to the same dentist tell them I don't have insurance X-rays are now free. Get insurance with my new job X-rays are $30 again.

2,... Birthcontrol for my wife going thru our insurance and paying $90 a month for birthcontrol pills of witch our insurance covers nothing. So her last doctors visit she asks if there is a less expensize pill she can get. tells him about paying $90 a month, he goes nuts in the head. Tells her to go to different pharmancy to get her pills, and tells her to tell them ***she does not insurance***. Now paying $9 a month for the same product.

So where does the problem exist??????????

Originally Posted by racen857

Ok here are 2 instances that I have encountered personaly,

1,... go to my dentist with insurance X-rays cost $30. get laid off no dental insurance go to the same dentist tell them I don't have insurance X-rays are now free. Get insurance with my new job X-rays are $30 again.

2,... Birthcontrol for my wife going thru our insurance and paying $90 a month for birthcontrol pills of witch our insurance covers nothing. So her last doctors visit she asks if there is a less expensize pill she can get. tells him about paying $90 a month, he goes nuts in the head. Tells her to go to different pharmancy to get her pills, and tells her to tell them ***she does not insurance***. Now paying $9 a month for the same product.

So where does the problem exist??????????

Assuming that's true, and I have no reason to disbelieve it, then it should be headline news on all TV programmes.

It's just business and plain old greed, no price regulation, not much competition. Look at Pet medication, most of it is same darn stuff as for people for 10X the cost.
If you pay it, why should they say they are charging you too much, its capitalism.

Originally Posted by CarbideBob

Seymour,
Shame on you for blowing the whistle.
You should have sent a PM to Frank, I thought about doing it.

Now, to the point at hand.
Why is it impossible to see any actual good ideas to get out of this problem???
Are we really as paralyzed as our politicians are?
My side, your side, everyone towing the party lines , buying into distorted information, and throwing mud at the other side.
A which point the other side says "I don't want to be like you. You are a ******** and know nothing."

Has it become impossible to have an intelligent debate and trade ideas in this country?
There are many hard choices to be made on both sides.

I find it very telling that every time this comes up I think I'm sitting on the Senate floor listening to my party vs. your party BS.
Even though everyone wants to complain about the government's inability to do anything,..................... it seems the public is no different.
No wonder we have such a mess.

Try to contribute to the solution, otherwise you are just part of the problem and the problem is racing along just fine without you.
Bob

There NEVER will be any reform to healthcare as long as "INSURANCE COMPANIES" are involved....
THEY run everything.. they BUY the congress critters whose staffs write what ever the insur co's need in bills and are sent to congress.

Want proof?.... remember when Nancy Peloci said... PASS the bill, THEN you get to read it to find out whats in it..... so they did.... and SCHAZAM.... ther's your OBLAMA CARE...
Fortunatly it's in court now and most likely will be ruled unconstitutional and 86'd...

But that still never solves the real problem.... INSURANCE CO's

Originally Posted by Gary E

There NEVER will be any reform to healthcare as long as "INSURANCE COMPANIES" are involved....
THEY run everything.. they BUY the congress critters whose staffs write what ever the insur co's need in bills and are sent to congress.

Want proof?.... remember when Nancy Peloci said... PASS the bill, THEN you get to read it to find out whats in it..... so they did.... and SCHAZAM.... ther's your OBLAMA CARE...
Fortunatly it's in court now and most likely will be ruled unconstitutional and 86'd...

But that still never solves the real problem.... INSURANCE CO's

Why do you hate private business so much?

The solution to healthcare is to open it up to the free market. Competition will drive down prices. Let's say you had a heart attack, you'd go online and check prices for ambulance and emergency room care. It's called shopping around for the best deal. Maybe you've heard of that before?

Oh wait, you want the government to take care of you! That way it doesn't matter how much your care costs, the nanny state will pay.

Guess what, I have a JOB and I pay for my own insurance. I don't expect anyone to take care of me for free. It's called personal responsibility. I know that's a foreign concept to you libs.

I sure as hell don't want to pay for anyone and everyone to get healthcare. People can go die as far as I'm concerned. If you don't have a job you deserve to die. And don't come back at me with a bunch of "what if's". I don't do nuance. Life ain't fair, get used to it.

Their should be snipers on the roof of every hospital ready to shoot illegal immigrants that come in and exploit our systems. Oh boo hoo, your kid is sick? Go back to Mexicrap or wherever else shit hole country you came from and tell them to take care of your lazy ass.

Originally Posted by John Welden

Why do you hate private business so much?

The solution to healthcare is to open it up to the free market. Competition will drive down prices. Let's say you had a heart attack, you'd go online and check prices for ambulance and emergency room care. It's called shopping around for the best deal. Maybe you've heard of that before?

Oh wait, you want the government to take care of you! That way it doesn't matter how much your care costs, the nanny state will pay.

Guess what, I have a JOB and I pay for my own insurance. I don't expect anyone to take care of me for free. It's called personal responsibility. I know that's a foreign concept to you libs.

I sure as hell don't want to pay for anyone and everyone to get healthcare. People can go die as far as I'm concerned. If you don't have a job you deserve to die. And don't come back at me with a bunch of "what if's". I don't do nuance. Life ain't fair, get used to it.

Their should be snipers on the roof of every hospital ready to shoot illegal immigrants that come in and exploit our systems. Oh boo hoo, your kid is sick? Go back to Mexicrap or wherever else shit hole country you came from and tell them to take care of your lazy ass.

John, nothing is free. I suspect illegal immigrants are desperate and I'm guessing the vast majority aren't in the USA to get "free" medical care and probably aren't expecting "free" anything.

Having said that then illegal aliens are a PITA in Europe and why they'd come to Europe from Africa and Asia is beyond me. Why the hell a Muslim woulld flee to any Christian country escapes me. At least your illegals aren't religious fanatics.

Gordon

I'm pretty sure if you asked a native American (Indian) then he's consider every last settler as being an illegal alien

Originally Posted by ewlsey

John Weldon,

I've been around long enough to know you are kidding, but it seems many do not. It might be time to reveal your identity.

Seems as though Comrade Welden has lost his way.
Not to worry, there is summer camp in Siberia he can attend to get his mind straight.

Originally Posted by Jean Solderov

Seems as though Comrade Welden has lost his way.
Not to worry, there is summer camp in Siberia he can attend to get his mind straight.

Siberia to separate from Russia to become a part of USA - English pravda.ru

Hmmmm Alaska would drop to second place

The mind boggles

Originally Posted by Gordon B. Clarke

Siberia to separate from Russia to become a part of USA - English pravda.ru

Hmmmm Alaska would drop to second place

The mind boggles

LOL.. You think Moscow would allow that? Where else could they exile prisoner/slaves to?

Originally Posted by rj newbould

LOL.. You think Moscow would allow that? Where else could they exile prisoner/slaves to?

Localized composters adapted from the space station if they so choose. THAT ain't their issue.

Siberia's petro and mineral resources and their economic dependency on 'em are, and Chinese companies already building all manner of small and medium deals in Russia's Far East is long-since worrying the Aitch out of Moscow far more than 'mericans are.

Bill

Originally Posted by jdj

Any of the rep/cons explain all the enormous increases of insurance premiums PRIOR to Obama, yet? Or are they STILL trying to insinuate that he has somehow been responsible for those increases since the very beginning of health insurance? From skimming the responses, looks like the later...BIG surprise!

That was Clinton's fault. (sarcasm)

Paul

I wonder if it would make a difference when the insurance company gathers all this money and sits on it for 90/180 days, uses this money to make investments in junk bonds or whatever. there should be a law you can only pay the people that run the company with these profits instead of just upping premium costs to pay themselves

To the Original Post, it is happening everywhere. Rates have been going up each and every year that I can remember. When it became too much for the companies to handle, employees picked up the increases. Go down a notch in healthcare plans to make them affordable and start with increases all over again...with a bigger Copay and deduction.

Private insurance sucks...Obama-Care or national healthcare sucks more. Democrats and/or Republican can only make it worse...nobody can screw up something like the government. Take that lesson from SS, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Care and any government run agency.

Denmark may work...but what was said to the population there...hell I believe we have more people living in NYC to abuse that system then Demark has people.

Originally Posted by dkmc

......do a little reading on the backs of your favorite boxes of packaged, canned, and processed foods at the supermarket.

Cooking with either fresh foods and/or frozen vegetables (now often frozen very near to the field/time of picking is my impression) will help to cut down any unwanted additives, as the cook gets to determine what goes in to the meal. Not everyone has good access to fresh fruits/vegetables so frozen can be an acceptable alternative. A little salt added into the food when cooked often has as much effect on flavor as a lot of salt dumped on your plate.

For those that say they don't have enough time to cook, I've found that it takes as much time to cook one night's dinner as it does enough for 3-4 nights. And you can always put one night's portion away in the freezer for a "I don't feel like cooking" night. How much time does it take to stand in line every night at some fast food place? And for what you spend on fast food/take-away you can probably buy a lot more k-calorie of fresh foods if you shop carefully.

FWIW, I'm the day-to-day cook in my household and have been for decades. It seems like anyone who can be a machinist (and I'm only a home-scrap machinist) could be at least an adequate cook. Find 5-10 things that you can do satisfactorily and then nudge the tolerances a little one way or another for some variety.

cheers,
Michael

Originally Posted by SIM

To the Original Post, it is happening everywhere. Rates have been going up each and every year that I can remember. When it became too much for the companies to handle, employees picked up the increases. Go down a notch in healthcare plans to make them affordable and start with increases all over again...with a bigger Copay and deduction.

Private insurance sucks...Obama-Care or national healthcare sucks more. Democrats and/or Republican can only make it worse...nobody can screw up something like the government. Take that lesson from SS, Medicare, Medicaid, VA Care and any government run agency.

Denmark may work...but what was said to the population there...hell I believe we have more people living in NYC to abuse that system then Demark has people.

You're absolutely right NYC does have a larger population than Denmark. On the other hand it doesn't really come down to size. If, percentagewise, the same amount abuse the system in NYC as in Denmark then money could still be saved.

It's impossible to keep everybody happy and the more there are the more there are that are unhappy. Percentagewise it shouldn't make that big a difference. Probably the biggest disadvantage of being "big" is that it takes longer.

The American health care system has existed for many years. Probably generations. Getting a majority to want or demand something else takes time. I believe it is a fact that the USA is the only western industrial country without a national health service and is also by far the most expensive without being unequivocally the best.

It's funny (and not the ha ha kind) that a majority doesn't like what it has yet it doesn't really want to change.

Hypothetical question. What country has a system that could perhaps work in the USA, assuuming of course a majority would want it? Canada, Australia, Germany, France, Britain etc.?

Gordon

Originally Posted by Michael Moore

Cooking with either fresh foods and/or frozen vegetables (now often frozen very near to the field/time of picking is my impression) will help to cut down any unwanted additives, as the cook gets to determine what goes in to the meal. Not everyone has good access to fresh fruits/vegetables so frozen can be an acceptable alternative. A little salt added into the food when cooked often has as much effect on flavor as a lot of salt dumped on your plate.

For those that say they don't have enough time to cook, I've found that it takes as much time to cook one night's dinner as it does enough for 3-4 nights. And you can always put one night's portion away in the freezer for a "I don't feel like cooking" night. How much time does it take to stand in line every night at some fast food place? And for what you spend on fast food/take-away you can probably buy a lot more k-calorie of fresh foods if you shop carefully.

FWIW, I'm the day-to-day cook in my household and have been for decades. It seems like anyone who can be a machinist (and I'm only a home-scrap machinist) could be at least an adequate cook. Find 5-10 things that you can do satisfactorily and then nudge the tolerances a little one way or another for some variety.

cheers,
Michael

There's a long way to go. Potato or Tomato? | Jamie Oliver's Food Revolution - YouTube

Insurance only works when the insured have a vested interest in protecting the insured item. Does auto insurance pay for blown engines when the driver did not change the oil for 20,000 miles? Why would a health insurance model that pays for every preventable instance of health problems be expected to work?

Competition in costs only drive down price when there is a vested interest in finding a ratio of cost to quality an actor is willing to purchase. When insurance covers or copays, or limits the choices of where to find a service, there is no effort to find the best cost. When the service provider's charges fluctuate based on the "max allowed" of the individual insurance providers, there is no incentive to reduce costs.

When service providers are forced to provide a service to individuals who will not or can not pay, the prices must increase for services provided to those who can and do pay.

When litigation is a serious threat, no matter the performance or intentions of the service provider, the costs of their service must increase.

When insurance providers live in protected markets ( you cannot purchase health insurance out of state ) they have no reason to reduce costs in effort to compete.

Add all of this together and it's a small wonder we even have health care at any level beyond trading precious metals to local shaman for basic services.

Originally Posted by kuraki556

Insurance only works when the insured have a vested interest in protecting the insured item. Does auto insurance pay for blown engines when the driver did not change the oil for 20,000 miles? Why would a health insurance model that pays for every preventable instance of health problems be expected to work?

Competition in costs only drive down price when there is a vested interest in finding a ratio of cost to quality an actor is willing to purchase. When insurance covers or copays, or limits the choices of where to find a service, there is no effort to find the best cost. When the service provider's charges fluctuate based on the "max allowed" of the individual insurance providers, there is no incentive to reduce costs.

When service providers are forced to provide a service to individuals who will not or can not pay, the prices must increase for services provided to those who can and do pay.

When litigation is a serious threat, no matter the performance or intentions of the service provider, the costs of their service must increase.

When insurance providers live in protected markets ( you cannot purchase health insurance out of state ) they have no reason to reduce costs in effort to compete.

Add all of this together and it's a small wonder we even have health care at any level beyond trading precious metals to local shaman for basic services.

Many have, and should have life insurance. That is insurance business and some pay less than others for that insurance. Only natural.

What the hell insurance companies have to do with health care is beyond me. Before the screaming and shouting and gnashing of teeth starts then a nationalised health plan takes years to implement.

Personally I'd hate to have an insurance company employee deciding what treatment he or she thought my policy covered. It's like asking a bank clerk how you should invest your money.

Gordon

[QUOTE=Gary E;1827625]

Originally Posted by AlDrake

What I "get" ?... not so important

so the rpugnats have the HOUSE? so what ? WHO has the SENATE??

I believe they are BOTH DETRIMENTAL to the USA.... but just what do you want MORE of From OBABMA???
More people unemployed?
MORE Debt?
MORE people on FOOD STAMPS???

Name SOMETHING that he has only given you a taste of that you want more of ??

I want him to keep bringing the US out of the hole that we were in when he was handed this sorry state of affairs. I want him to keep deporting illegals, more then any other president. I want him to keep killing terrorists like Bin Laden and the others. I want him to keep creating jobs like he has been. I want him to work for the ideals of the left.

The right have the house because they cried "where are the jobs" and have done nothing but try to bring down the president. More people are on food stamps because they tried to survive in a recession left behind by a failed leader and war criminal. Obama has not created any more debt than was projected no matter who got his job. If you think there is more unemployment then you are either a liar or a fool or both.

Originally Posted by John Welden

They're not my morals, they're God's. If you have a problem with them, you might want to take it up with him.

Liberals don't have morals. Just do whatever feels good , huh? Just come on the Internet and attack me! Who cares, God isnt watching!

When Jesus comes back, I'll be going with him. You libs will get to go to hell. Your choice. You just have to let Jesus into your heart.

They are your interpretation of what GOD wants. He will be judging you while you are busy judging others. Something he does not want you to do. But you cut and snip like everyone else that thumps.