machinist test

hi everyone, I have a problem, when I hire people they come with a very long resume, (the temple you find for free online) saying that they have excellent skills and experience, also they have certificates of training from different trade schools, they always say that they are a machinist with lots of experience, after hiring I'm very disappointed, I really don't mind giving some training, but I think the pay should be according to their knowledge and skills, no in base of the resume information, so I'm open to a ideas for machinist test, 10 questions? 20 questions? how many? and what should ask to determinate the level of machinist, so I don't have to waste my time with the paper work, insurance, documents, irs, payroll etc. thank you.

I've never hired anyone, but at several interviews I have been handed a part and been asked either how I would make it, or how to inspect it. If the candidate can give you suitable, and preferably multiple answers, you've got someone who at least has an idea about what they're doing. Ask for feeds and chiploads and what machines they'd use them on for various materials. I hate "tests" and don't test very well, but I love thinking about how I would make a part.

Hire someone who is interested in their work. So far I think the reason I've had multiple offers at once is because I want to keep learning. I am honest about what I don't know, and when someone says "do you have experience with _____?" I say, "No, but I'm interested in learning."

Ask them how many thousandths of an inch are in an inch. It is amazing how many so called "machinists" can not answer correctly.

delverth said:

hi everyone, I have a problem, when I hire people they come with a very long resume, (the temple you find for free online) saying that they have excellent skills and experience, also they have certificates of training from different trade schools, they always say that they are a machinist with lots of experience, after hiring I'm very disappointed, I really don't mind giving some training, but I think the pay should be according to their knowledge and skills, no in base of the resume information, so I'm open to a ideas for machinist test, 10 questions? 20 questions? how many? and what should ask to determinate the level of machinist, so I don't have to waste my time with the paper work, insurance, documents, irs, payroll etc. thank you.

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test questions can be tricky to think of. a fanuc cnc control might have questions specific to fanuc controls and gcode
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in a job interview the foreman had introduced me to the head machinist running a Mazak vertical machining center. he was showing me the mazak tool offset page and i mentioned a prototrak mill and lathe has some thing similar called a modifier for adjusting so parts are .001" bigger or smaller. basically same thing but different name.
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he said he ran face mills at 600 sfpm on 1018 steel and what did i use. i said i used slower speeds with longer tools and bigger depths of cut and didn't he do the same? he said he never did, so i thought i would not get the job. maybe he thought about long end mills and long tool holders and decided yes he did slow thing down same as me.
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my point is not everybody calls everything the same thing. they call oversize taps "green taps". milling saw cutters they call "wheel mills". if somebody asked me about green taps or wheel mills earlier i would not know what they are for a test
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i know during a job interview it can be difficult to come up with quick answers on the spot. i was once asked, have you ever had a problem you failed to solve and what did you do? i said my old job the machine could not keep up with a more modern design machine and i failed to match performance metrics. machine and building was shut down. everybody laid off and building was demolished....... some how i do not think that is what they wanted to hear.
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just saying a general machinist test is ok but most places make the decision to permanently hire after 3 to 6 months. things like honesty and integrity, ability to get along with others, follow procedures as told to do, report quality problems and not hide mistakes, ability to learn new things, those things take time to find out.

To TomB's line; I have used the term 'tenths' meaing 0.0001 of an inch. Some thought I was saying 0.010.
As to questions, I'd have 10 to 20 math problems, from simple addition subtraction etc. Geometery, Algebra and up to Trig. I would keep the problems simple one. Also, some word problems. Some non-math reading and comprehension. Then some reading of mics or measureing equipment. Also, some reading of bule prints. GD&T etc. if you use it. Maybe some SPC if used.

Prepare a part with several off size features, several on size features, an extra hole, and a missing feature, with a lot of burrs on it. Hand it to them and have them deburr it and inspect it. If they can't deburr, they really aren't much of a machinist. If they can't measure, what makes anyone think they can hold parts on size? If they can't spot the missing/incorrect features, and suggest how to add them, what experience do they have reading prints or setting up a process? If they can't do any of that, then they are not a machinist. Fixtures loaders are not machinists.

Gobo said:

Ask them how many thousandths of an inch are in an inch. It is amazing how many so called "machinists" can not answer correctly.

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Or better yet...How many "Mil's" in an inch!?

From a very different context, but maybe will help: I used to interview software people. They'd often have resumes over the top from even what the OP describes. Think "PhD Standord". And for a long time I tried to ask trick questions, and had poor results. Then I changed. I asked "what is an operating system and why would I want one..." the people who grokked the topic would have good answers. The people who didn't would literally be rendered mute, one I wonder if he was going to choke.

On topic bit - the "how would you make this" or "how would you QA this" questions strike me as very good. Also, I personally look up speeds and feeds in charts and go from there, so I'm not sure speeds and feeds off the top of your head is very helpful. Maybe better to ask people where they get starting values, and how they adjust them. The person who doens't know and has no earthly clue how to start worries me. The person who doesn't know and has a reasonable plan to get going is the one you likely want.

You might also try - take a lathe part, and say "we only have mills available to make this part, how would you do this on a mill?" and see what sort of answer you get...

gobo said:

ask them how many thousandths of an inch are in an inch. It is amazing how many so called "machinists" can not answer correctly.

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as i said i'm trying to hire a good hand, a real machinist or a guy interested and willing to learn the trade. I'm no try to make fun of them or see how dumb they are, i'm serious, thanks atomkinder excellent idea, dmf tomb and winterfalke thanks alot that gave a good picture of what i have to do

Winterfalke said:

Prepare a part with several off size features, several on size features, an extra hole, and a missing feature, with a lot of burrs on it. Hand it to them and have them deburr it and inspect it. If they can't deburr, they really aren't much of a machinist. If they can't measure, what makes anyone think they can hold parts on size? If they can't spot the missing/incorrect features, and suggest how to add them, what experience do they have reading prints or setting up a process? If they can't do any of that, then they are not a machinist. Fixtures loaders are not machinists.

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I've interviewed many, many, back in the day. Many of whom would have bled to death if you handed them a part with a burr on it. Just give the "machinist" a square and a pair of calipers (with the points dulled), and the test piece. That will weed out 90%.
have fun
i_r_

ps. It will also weed out about 95% of the engineers.

In todays world, you need to decide what "Machinist" means.

We are not in the same world that most of us grew up in. Not everyone knows how to lay out a job on their engine lathe or Bridgeport.

There are oodles of good "machinists" out there that can set up a machine, run, edit, and QC a job - yet never been involved with laying the job out, or programming it.

Also - as far as job layout goes, on a more daffycult part, looking at the print on your own time, w/o someone waiting on your answer is not a good way to go. Example - I was given a print Friday with a cpl folks standing around. I was not able to really see the details of the job in that environment.

I Shirley don't know the answer to your question, but one thing that came to mind while reading through here is that if you give a person a mic and a shaft to measure, you should be able to tell very quickly how many shafts they have measured in their day - just by the way they hold and handle a mic. Doo they fumble with it, or does it come naturally to them w/o thinking?


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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

We hand out a few prints, one of which we know is going to warp.
Then we tell them to take their time, and explain how they would make the part, and what they would be concerned about.
Anybody claiming to know how to program gets a short Mastercam test on the computer.
Those things tend to tell a lot in a short time.

back a long time ago i would manually lay out center punch marks and lines for cutting and machining. with cnc machining i can not remember last time i had to use a center punch, scriber or even a square.
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occasionally use a small square putting stuff in a vise but just saying a 20 hp cnc that can be programmed literally in a minute or 2......... shit part would be machined faster on a cnc than i could lay out center punch marks and lines let alone start machining with manual machines
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i have been in shops where literally there was no, none any layout tools at all

First, I'd never hire a minimum wage employee, even if they were in that category. I'd want them to think they were better than that. Second, go get an endmill, boring head, and ask him what they are and what can you do with them. Let him measure a few parts while he says what sizes the dimensions are. If he says 1/10th of an inch, he's pretty close to minimum wage.

Make him sweat the endmill, why two, three, four flutes. What can you do with a boring head? Bore a hole, fly cut, if you need to, including special cutting tools for the head. Ask him to grind a special tool.

It's not how much he knows, it's about where he falls "out of bed" that is important.

This machine shop is not a minimum wage machine shop. So I'll higher you at better than minimum wage. Now if your habits that you acquire here allow you to see what needs done and you can do it, you'll grow.

Your raise is effective when you are.

Regards,
Stan-

I thought that was what references were for on a job application?, call and ask if they would hire them back, a simple hesitation at the end of the line would answer that question for you instantly.

We had a pretty in depth mechanical aptitude test at one point.....but reality is.....that only tells you a guy has the ability to learn stuff and nothing about his desire to do so. We had a few guys that did real good on the test end up being outstanding machinist' and a few guys that....uhm....shall we say, were quite a bit less than outstanding.
I have been involved in a few interviews were I have brought a couple of parts and a dial caliper, and a couple of micrometers in with me and had a print with arrows and a little empty box......and asked a guy to fill in the dimension to within a specified tolerance. I think alot of machinist' recognize each other by how we grab a mic or a caliper.....obviously this does not tell someones entire story......but fail these few things, and I dont want you working in my department.

Just look at the guy's toolbox. I can't believe how many "Machinists" we go through who don't even own one. If it's not a Kennedy, the guys getting off on the wrong foot to start with. If he doesn't have a Six Inch scale in his shirt pocket, he's probably a bum. Offer him a shot of Scotch. There's nothing sorrier than a "Machinist" who doesn't drink.

I thought about this before. if I were ever to hire someone.

For someone who claims to have experience, two simple tests.

1) Have a caliper and six inch ruler on a bench with a small box containing a selection of odd and differing size/length flute and metallurgy - old dull end mills. Ask them to select the one quarter inch, two flute, single end, non coated, carbide, high helix, three eights inch length of cut end mill (for example).

If they get it right, move to test two.

If they never use the ruler and calipers and mentions its as sharp as a door knob, chipped or otherwise useless, skip test two and hire them.

2) Point to a machine mentioned on his resume or one close to it that is off; tell them to start it up to be ready to work.

To pass they must first before hitting the ON button. [in any order, can miss all but step #6 and still qualify]
1) check oil level
2) check air on/off and pressure
3) check coolant level and condition (just a visual for now)
4) check main breaker
5) check e-stop position
6) look to see there are no tools or material that would get pinched as axis move. Stock in vice/chuck that may drop when cycled, anything not right to allow home position movement.

Lastly..
- press ON button

That's what I would do..

Larry Dickman said:

Just look at the guy's toolbox. I can't believe how many "Machinists" we go through who don't even own one. If it's not a Kennedy, the guys getting off on the wrong foot to start with. If he doesn't have a Six Inch scale in his shirt pocket, he's probably a bum. Offer him a shot of Scotch. There's nothing sorrier than a "Machinist" who doesn't drink.

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Yeah, them guys with Gershners are trouble.

75sv1 said:

Yeah, them guys with Gershners are trouble.

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The Gerstner ones too