Post By doug6949
Shop Manager/Foreman pay
What should a shop manager's pay scale be? Run shop, order materials, steel, shop supplies, set up and operate manual, and cnc as well as do all the programming, trouble shooting assemblies, tool design, supervise and train. Just curious what a good all around guy could be making.
As much as you can afford to pay him?
Depends on the stress level.
Is he running a job shop where if your calipers say it meets the prints then it's good?
Or is he running a paperwork nightmare that operates 24/7?
Significantly more than the most experienced machinist, otherwise, "I should have stayed as a machinist".
So, let's say no less than 125% of the pay of the most experienced machinist.
If the guy is expected to "sell", then a commission structure could be expected.
If they are expected to pick up small parts and paperwork "while you are in the area", with their own vehicle, then mileage should be paid.
If they are on-call, perhaps no less than 150% of the pay of the most experienced machinist.
Otherwise, "I should have stayed as a machinist" .
In Southern California a friend of mine paid his plant manager 110K (this year, 30 guys on the floor) in 2005 I was making 90K (40 hr salary) doing the same but a much smaller shop. The owner rarely came around....that was a sweet job.....
Good info. I am curious for myself, as this is what I do. I do have a company vehicle w/gas card. I am on call, and if something 'special' comes in, I get it (which is actually fun, most times). It is like a job shop. We build our own tools, and the needed parts can change on a dime. Plus repair of other tools. I don't sell, but do keep in contact with a few folks we have done work for. When we decided to sell some of the tools we normally rent, I was the one who came up with the price structure. Had a laugh when I was asked what we charge an hour. 'You have been in business 30 years, and now you wonder what we charge an hour?' For the most part I love what I do, just can't get on a roll doing any one thing with out being stopped for something or having to change directions. Trying to keep work going through the shop. Have one manual guy, and one trainee cnc guy, so I get a lot of the load. Other factors make the stress level up there (we call it the friend and family plan, I think you can follow that!). I also do all the drawings and design work when needed. We had an engineer who would say 'This needs changed', but I redid the drawings, and all the exponintial(sp) changes that the one change created. Don't have him any more.
Like I said, I like getting to do all the things, but man.
With out overtime (I am hourly) I am a bit below $60K. I do get some OT, so....
Some times I think "I should have stayed as a machinist".
I think more information is in order. How many employees does he direct supervise? How many total under his command? How many dollars of assets? What is the gross and the net of his area of responsibility? Does he have P&L responsibility?
In New Mexico, with a not very good employer, in the land where a gas station assistant manager on salary is thrilled with $8.50 an hour salary.
I was getting $17.50 an hour, after a year at this company, 3 years later I was running the shop at $17.50, was demoted for a year, then we ALL took a pay cut of $4 an hour, then I ran it again for 3 more years at $16.
The bonus structure turned out to be Bull Shit. I saw one half of one bonus, once ever. Overtime needed to be cut at one point, so we could bank anything over 6 hours of OT. That was fine, I thought I was going to get it at $17.50*1.5. I got it back at $13.50 an hour.
That pay cut, we were told on Wednesday, 2 days before payday, and it was retroactive through the last pay period, and I never got my last paycheck, they had refigured and I had been "over paid".
This was supervising and training from the high end of 14 employees down to 5, averaged about 7 or 8. Programming, fixturing, fixing everything, quoting, dealing with customers, some material ordering, all the tool ordering, the paper work on the shop side.
I still managed to clear $49k almost every year(except for that $13.50 year). I think it was worth more in the 60-75k range. Which I would have been at easily with "promised" bonus's.
I can honestly say I didn't give 2 shits the last year. The owner was very spiteful when the shop side made a profit, especially when it was bigger than the side of the business he was running. Didn't make sense to me since it was all his money anyways. I knew if the shop made a profit he would shove some shit hole money losing job down our throat that would have the shop hemorrhaging money for months on end.
I think $50k on the very low end, $100k plus on the higher end, depending on the amount of crap you have to deal with, how many idiots you have to deal with.
I think you should get $5 extra in your paycheck for every minute you have to deal with an idiot. $10 for every minute of a mean nasty person, and $50 for every minute of a mean nasty stupid person. $100 if the person is mean and nasty and you have to kiss their ass since they are supposed to give you money.
Big difference (in my head, anyway) between a foreman and a shop manager. To me, a foreman is in charge of some guys and some subset of production, but doesn't have to deal with chasing down orders, kissing customer asses, purchasing, accounts payable and receivable, paperwork, taxes, etc. So to me a foreman is the lead machininst. A shop manager does all that probably, but also has all the paperwork and customer and profit/loss hassles.
Here in the land of terrible pay and economic depression (Ohio) the former is about $40 to 60k depending on how many guys, tolerances, shop type, and all that. The latter more like 50k to 80k. Maybe more if it is a big or profitable shop.
I don't have to mess with P&L stuff. The machine shop was originally set up to support the rest of the business. We mainly do some specialty down hole tools. One of the owners has/had some patents on most of the tools. It is a profitable business. One of the tools went gang busters a few years ago and the machine shop went nuts keeping up. I have had as many as 5 machinist, currently have just 2, but like I said one is a completely green, but sharp, trainee, one manual guy with mostly oil field back ground. The tools we make have a lot of precision in them, so....
Have interviewed several, but as you know finding some one qualified to do some things is hard right now. So I dael with what I have and do my best to take up the slack. 9Which has driven my blood pressure up, amongst other things!). I do try to keep track of some paper work, as they have trouble with keeping records (or finding them) of what we charged for that last part for so-and-so, so I have had them give a copy of the invoice. When you have one of the paper pushers come ask you what we charge, and I say look at the last statement, then get the roll of the eyes and he says, "I guess I'll keep track of that, too". Nuts. I worked at a place that could track a can lid around the world to within 2 hour window of when it was produced. I joke with these guys about not being able to track a tool across the street. No pruduction minded folk at all.
I also get the test hands coming to me for supplies, tool repairs, where do we keep these (tools they use!), that kind of stuff.
The idiots, well, friend and family plan. I had a bumper sticker on my office window once that said if idiots could fly this place would be an airport. I have one of the owners grandsons to do the sawing, on the 2 days a week he is here. I won't go into his severe lack of any kind of hurry. Another one of the sons I have shoved through the front office once, and had to get between him and one of my guys more than once. Yada yada yada. I have learned to back off abit and remember that there are only so many hours in the day, and I can only do so much. Some days I forget that, though! Extra pay should be for baby sitting, at times!
Wasn't meaning to rant, just getting alot of thoughts out of my head. I have to bounce some things of a freind now and then to keep perspective. I have turned down a few job offers of late, one for a couple of dollars an hour more, but.........maybe I'm the ignorant one here!
"maybe I'm the ignorant one here! "
Ahhhhh...grasshopper....you are close to walking on the rice-paper and leaving it undisturbed....
I can imagine someone accepting a plant manager's position for the extra pay. Been there. Done that.
I cannot imagine anyone making that same mistake twice.
Call him "Foreman" and cut his pay 25%. He will kiss your ass to be called "Boss".
I worked with lots of them in the Westinghouse. Graduate Apprentices, promise was that they would eventually be "Bosses". Couldn't wait, left 12 buck an hour jobs for 7 buck "salaries", as "Bosses" in small shops.
Title means a lot to some people.
...in 1998 I paid my shop manager 50K per year plus 10% of the profits. He worked 50 hrs a week(ten hour days) and got 3 weeks paid vacation. our last year profits where about 93k (it was a good year) so before taxes he made 59K plus.
I gave 6k in Christmas bonuses to all five employees. His cut was 2000 of that.
I strongly believe tying profit to bonuses & net profit. BTW I drew 2600 gross every two weeks and payed taxes out of that so 52 times 2600 = 67600 be for taxes, that was my income. So... again this was a good year close to a 900k gross. After giving everyone their bonuses and shop manager his cut, just over 70k was left.
I increased operating capital by 40k ( and payed 28 pecent taxes on it!!) so..just under 28k in operating account added.
I end up with 36K to my gross before taxes...put max into SEP plan and another bit into the employees SEP. I don' recall the numbers but I grossed about 80k that year.
So... he made about 20k gross less than what I made... if you exclude net value increase of the business.
Last edited by scadvice; 07-20-2011 at 06:49 PM.
Reason: numbers corrected
Ahhhhh...grasshopper....you are close to walking on the rice-paper and leaving it undisturbed....
‪Kung Fu Rice Paper SUCCEED‬‏ - YouTube[/QUOTE]
Had to smile at that one. Was one of my favorite shows growing up.
I don't care about the titles, thought more than once about asking them to hire some one to handle all the crap and just let make parts!
Well of your are interested in relocating south I certainly would pay you more than that for what you are doing.
Originally Posted by PHDesigns
time for cajun food!
Hmmmmm, sounds like it could be tempting! (email sent)
Originally Posted by Kingbob