Thread: To time or not too time (clock)

Just wondering if any of you smaller guys use a time clock for the workers to keep track when they arrive or leave.. For the last 40 years my father went by the theory of "If you can't trust your employees...you dont need them".

Jay

Shouldn't that last sentence read " can't" instead of "can" ?

When i started working at my current job we just wrote our time cards out ourselves. then matt started. He was the last to arrive first to leave but always had the most hours...now we have a time clock. thanks matt

I have never used a time clock, but only had 3 or 4 employees at one time. Now, just got 1 full timer and 1 part timer.

I have a trusting attitude, and thus don't feel the need for the rigid structure of a time clock. I tell the folks to write down there in/out in even, 15 min increments, so it's easier for me to add up when doing a paycheck. Sometimes they may get 5 mins this way, but other times the company has gotten 5 mins. So, it balances out.

Now, that being said, if you have several employees, you can lose time "around the edges" of the day, and lunchtime. Without a time clock, 30 min lunches can become 35 min., and employees are often standing at the time clock waiting to punch out the second it turns.

So, for example, if you have 10 employees, and each one "nibbles" 15 min per day, then that's 150 min per day, or 750 min per week! Some lost production time right there...

The bad part of not using time cards is If/When an employee or worse yet an Ex-Employee gets an attitude and goes to the labor board with all kind of false complaints... It is hard to dispute what a punched time card says..

It all depends on the number of employees . Up to about 5 workers is fine to just have them write in the time longhand . Especially if the boss is one of the workers .
I don't think it is really a question of trust at all . Things are busy enough at the beginning of the day to have to become the time cop . But when you get more employees , I think a time clock just makes sense from a practical POV . People always need to go to Dr. appointments. Off early for family emergencies , etc .
Sometimes I wish I had a timeclock just to keep track of time on jobs when I get interrupted or sidetracked. But I get by with a system of clipboards and legal paper for each job .
I try to log all time in increments of .1 hr ( 6 min ) and also keep track of material this way .
Once had a helper who never kept track of any time on repair jobs . His method was to stare at the clock and gusstimate when he started /finished , and then guessed what the customer would like to pay , and then kinda sorta arrive at a price .
He was a great worker , but probably lost me lots of $$. He now has his own shop so he can now lose money for himself .
FBBob

You don't need a clock, just a signing-in sheet. I had to do this on a site where guys were spread about and some started taking liberties with their timekeeping. Everyone signs in the book, or doesn't get paid (including me). I sign in exactly at shift start, and sign out exactly at shift end.

Anyone who'se name appears after mine in the morning or efore mine in the evening loses an hour. Don't sign in or out - don't get paid. Only had to do this for one joba few years back but it soon cured the timekeeping.

If you have even more than just a couple of employees, I think its worth it.

They're pretty cheap. The one in McMaster Carr is like $600, comes with the software and 50 badges. I've used the same one elsewhere, really easy to use.

Before me and my partner got together, he had bought one, not for punching in and out, but to keep track of jobs. He was doing a lot of time and material and each job was assigned a time clock badge, so come the end of the week he had an excellent hard copy of how much to charge on what job.

I guess you could mix it up too, employees and jobs, you can buy more cards and can reassign them too when the job is done, or the employee is gone.

I wouldn't run the shop without one.
In union happy Québec Canada the punch clock
is a common fixture everywhere.
A a matter of fact it helps you build up a file against
a bad apple when needed. One guy has been robbing me
anywhere from 15 - 30 min. a day plus being talkative.
I am not paying someone to change out of their boots or catch up on the weekend's current events. We are here to make tooling.
Why should I pay and then myself finish the work they should have done ?
I was too trusting in the past and got burned repeatedly.
Get the timeclock and don't care what they think, it's business.
You can be orderly and a good boss at the same time !
Times have changed and stress affects people that were once good.

From an employee's perspective, I don't take the presence of a time clock as an insult or vote-of-no-confidence or whatever. I take it as the owner looking out for his investment, which I regard as a good thing for me. It's absolutely no skin off my nose to punch a clock, and after all, who does it hurt but the neer-do-wells?

I'd second John's opinion. A time clock keeps both the employee and employer accountable and provides accurate record keeping. My employees can come and go whenever they choose, so deciphering their hours was a nightmare. As almost all of our machines have a PC located at them, we use a inexpensive software version called MTS Timeclock. The software cost under $100 and we can use it on as many computers as desired. We have been using this software for about three years with no problems at all. My office manager loves it as she does not have to spend lots of time calculating hours. I like it because I know that I have accurate time recording and records to prove it and my employees like it because it is simple and easy to use.

Time Clock Software, Timeclock Software

BTBB

Originally Posted by Brepins

When i started working at my current job we just wrote our time cards out ourselves. then matt started. He was the last to arrive first to leave but always had the most hours...now we have a time clock. thanks matt

I bought a time clock for exactly that reason. When I had 2 employees.

I got one that prints in military time and in .01 hrs, makes it real easy to add up the week's time. You push the card down a slot in the top, it prints on the card and clips off a corner so that each printed time is automatically in sequence so it's real easy for the employee to use - a no brainer in fact. Make it easy and they will use it.

A time clock protects the employer, and it also protects the employee so he gets all the pay he's due. There are occasional lapses, someone forgets to clock in or clock out once in a while, then I take their word for what the correct time was and they are fair with me. This beats the heck out of depending on a busy employee remembering to take note of when he started and when he stopped. Plus my guys tend to stay afterward and work on their own projects or use the computer etc, and when they hit the timeclock there's no doubt whether they are on their own time or my time. I am not rigid about starting or quitting time, as long as each person in there to do his job when he is needed - I don't use the clock to enforce attendance.

Everything Mud just said.

I have had a timeclock for over ten years now, with as few as ONE employee.
It saves time when doing payroll, its a better record for possible government audits, and there is no employee, no matter how honest, who doesnt round up in his own favor. I know when I was an employee, I sure did.

You can get one at Office Max for only $250 or $300 for a paperless model that loads info directly to quickbooks, where each employee gets a mag card, and they dont have to worry about paper cards at all.

I used a time clock to keep track of job times, not the employee coming and goings.

I wish some of my customers would use time clocks for their guys I have to interface with. And require them to work 8 to 5. Two of these shops let the guys set their own time, "come in late, stay late", yeah right.

The problem with this is many times I want to start their jobs first thing in the morning, but they aren't in yet to answer questions about possible errors on the drawings.

One time I was going home past one of the customers. There was the car of a "stay later" I needed to talk with. The front door was unlocked so I walked in, he was in his office, so not to startle him I announced in a loud I was there.

A whole bunch of noises came out of the office followed by his girl friend who was obviously trying to look like she'd had all her clothes on.

So much for staying late, huh? I bet he kept the front door locked after that.

I feel I'm too nice sometimes... I have one guy coming in late..and the other quiting early along with a part time office person coming in at random hours. I always give time to people but get nothing in return. I had a guy come in late 2 days last week because of DR. appointments. The 1st time he came in at 9 and took a break at our usual 10 o'clock the next time he came in at 9:45 and took a break at 10. I wanted to spit nails. If he would of came in and forgone the breaks...I would of paid him full pay for making an effort to come to work after an appointment. Do people get it?

Even if you trust your employees not to cheat you on hours, I would still have a time clock so they can punch in and out for lunch. Just takes one of them to leave and go to the labor board and say they never got a proper lunch break, enjoy dealing with that. Especially if your in CA

I had employees in NJ. They didn't work on our site, but were from our site. They got paid on a percentage of the work's value. They were very close to being independent contractors, but could not pass all the criteria for that. Time worked and hours put in didn't matter at all to the pay. Just do the job. And they could refuse a job if they thought the rate was too low. That rarely happened.

Anway one A$$hole complained to the labor board about overtime! They could not understand how it was up to the employee to do the job in whatever time it took. and he was compesateed for the job. Not any kind of hourly wage involved.

I could not convince the state. this deal cost me a bunch of money.

The state said if we used a time clock to keep records, we could have had more ammo to fight this. A time clock to record the coming and goings. Even thou the pay is not hourly based.

Thank you. NJ.

Frank.

Check this out.
Workforce Management, Talent Management, Time & Attendance, HR & Payroll Solutions - Kronos Incorporated
I knew a guy that worked for them.
I recall him saying employees could access their attendance, vacation, sick time , etc. via telephone(pre-internet).
Very advanced for that time.
Probably more advanced now.

SM

Originally Posted by JB @ C and L Machine

I feel I'm too nice sometimes... I have one guy coming in late..and the other quiting early along with a part time office person coming in at random hours. I always give time to people but get nothing in return. I had a guy come in late 2 days last week because of DR. appointments. The 1st time he came in at 9 and took a break at our usual 10 o'clock the next time he came in at 9:45 and took a break at 10. I wanted to spit nails. If he would of came in and forgone the breaks...I would of paid him full pay for making an effort to come to work after an appointment. Do people get it?

One person that really bugged me... Always needed the morning off, for Dr., Legal, etc.. and would arrive at work at lunchtime, clocking in with a sack of Fast Food.. and go straight to the lunchroom... After his extended lunch, he would spend an hour in the terlet, We finally got rid of that POS excuse for an employee..