Price check!.......tell me your opinions on this part quote.

dkmc · Nov 16, 2012

9/16 HEX 1018

Overall Length of part: 1.880 *
Internal threads: 3/8-16 2B (check with go-nogo gauge)
Remove burrs, no finish requirements.

Quantities: 750 and 1000

Tell me what you'd charge to make these, and I'll share the customers "best price" they got so far.

* Can't use a standard 3/8 -16 tap on these, has to be a pulley tap or at least longer than standard, reduced shank size.
Not sure they make a reduced shank in a 3/8 tap?

proturn · Nov 16, 2012

I'm assuming this some sort of stand off part. Threads all the way through. These numbers are for material and complete turning on a 2-axis CNC. Face,spot,drill,tap,cutoff,feedout, repete... I'm assuming someone with a big enough B&S screw could do much better on simple stuff like this. Lets see your numbers boys & girls!!1

750=$2.23 each
1000=$2.19 each

dkmc · Nov 16, 2012

Yes, standoff.......threads all thru

chip_maker · Nov 16, 2012

NQ.........looks like a "race to the bottom" kinda part :willy_nilly:

.

And their "best price" could be bs too. I'm gonna guess around a buck a pc though.

I don't see this as a 1 op part either, not with threads all the way thru, in 1018 non the less. those qty's would be nice if you had a sub spindle and a bar feed, then you could drop the part complete. I don't have either

..............yet

.

proturn · Nov 16, 2012

chip_maker said:
NQ.........looks like a "race to the bottom" kinda part..

AGREED!

chip_maker said:
I don't see this as a 1 op part either, not with threads all the way thru, in 1018 non the less. those qty's would be nice if you had a sub spindle and a bar feed, then you could drop the part complete. I don't have either..............yet.

With the correct tap, this is a easy job. With the no finish callout, it makes it a one op part, cut it off and while the machine is running chamfer the cutoff side of the tapped hole using the correct chamfer tool as to not push a burr into the thread. Coated tools and a good coolant presure = happiness

chip_maker · Nov 16, 2012

proturn said:
With the correct tap, this is a easy job. With the no finish callout, it makes it a one op part, cut it off and while the machine is running chamfer the cutoff side of the tapped hole using the correct chamfer tool as to not push a burr into the thread. Coated tools and a good coolant presure = happiness

You might be able to pull it off with a bottoming form tap, but the issue I see is runout of the tap drilled hole as you get further down the bar, you could always use a carbide drill though :scratchchin:

. your gonna have to drill deeper to give the tap room and what about some partial threads in the next part? I guess you could do a secondary cutoff after your primary cutoff to get rid of partial threads and the partially drilled hole into the next pc.

proturn · Nov 16, 2012

chip_maker said:
You might be able to pull it off with a bottoming form tap, but the issue I see is runout of the tap drilled hole as you get further down the bar, you could always use a carbide drill though. your gonna have to drill deeper to give the tap room and what about some partial threads in the next part? I guess you could do a secondary cutoff after your primary cutoff to get rid of partial threads and the partially drilled hole into the next pc.

Coolant through carbide is the only way to be competitive when drilling this deep. 2 thread lead bottoming form tap, and drilling .19 deep with a 90deg. spot drill takes care of any previous drill point

SDConcepts · Nov 16, 2012

see if you can use 12L14 instead of 1018 it will cut easier and finish nicer. 1000 pcs is pretty easy i would be right around 2.00/part. although i wouldn't quote the job.

Dave K · Nov 16, 2012

Only one person so far coughed up a price? I was thinking $2.15 @ 750 and $2.00 @ 1000. I personally love these types of jobs. Pretty simple to run, no stumbling blocks. It goes in the machine, comes off, goes to customer. It's quick and smooth.

kustomizingkid · Nov 16, 2012

So its an ~$1600-$2000 job... How much of that is left to profits at the end of the day?

Ox · Nov 16, 2012

I would say that $2 would be fair, and I too would ask the customer if 1215 would be acceptable - as it seems it should be.
(Or rather I would quote it "as 1215 LCS".)'
I ass_u_me they aint welding to a stand-off eh?

Generally the engineers think that a non-critical part that can be made out of whatever cheap $hit falls off the back of the truck will be fine - should be spec'd that way. If they just said "LCS" and left it to us to decide would sure make life easier. The cheapest material doesn't usually make the cheapest parts. At least not in my shop... Not on production parts anyway...

You guys and your "race the [foul] bottom". :rolleyes5:

Because you kant run it on your machine and make $100/hr, means that someone that runs that type of werk kant make a living wage at it? Sure, we are all making chips here, but how many and of what size and type is a broad spectrum. There are areas of this industry that I don't bother to compete in because that is not the direction that my shop went as it was growing. I don't expect to compete with someone that has gone the other fork on their niche' either. Doesn't mean that they aint making rate... :crazy:

I would agree that a form tap may work well here, but I still think that a Mod Bottom Spiral Flute with a little Jenny Craig will be fine. Not gunna sink the tool all the way back in a Bilz holder, but you should be able to git ahold of enough of it in any collet to tap to depth.

-----------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

twabscs · Nov 16, 2012

Less than $1.00 piece here if the previous owner did it with one of our B&S machines. However We don't work that cheap now that I run the place.

What's the material cost? Take that and add 40% is how he quoted but he just worked to stay away from the wife.

Ox · Nov 16, 2012

kustomizingkid said:
So its an ~$1600-$2000 job... How much of that is left to profits at the end of the day?

Ahhhhh, story problems....

Here is your equazsion so's that you don't hafta ask aggin:

2000 - M - P / T = GP

M = material
P = Perishables
T = Time
GP = Gross Profit

To find actual "Profit", well son - it may take several years to figger out that equazsion, and that's one you hafta figger out for yourself. :toetap:

(Note that the equazsion looks slightly differ'nt each yr as well...)

---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

dkmc · Nov 16, 2012

I don't have the print right here, but I -think- the mat. spec was actually 1010-1020CRS

He said "he was told" the material was .63 each (my mat. price came in at .34 for 1018) and that the best price they have seen (on 750) is $1.12 each.

So .49 each for overhead, labor and profit....

I think I'd rather "coast" to the bottom a little slower than that IF possible.....and "hit" a little "softer" too please....?

Also curious and should have asked in first post....whats your best estimate or guesstimate
on the cycle time?

twabscs · Nov 16, 2012

20-30 seconds on a B&S. Feed, drill, tap, cutoff. The first part that I learned on (and stopped making soon after) was a 1" x 2" bushing out of 12L14 and he sold it for .89 in runs of 1000. As I reviewed the books I saw the material was > .50. Ouch.

Also I'm no expert on the internal thread and so there may be an extra step to face after the cut to ensure a good thread start, etc. Only been doing this for a few months.

Guest · Nov 16, 2012

I am in with the $2 each crowd.

Ox · Nov 17, 2012

twabscs said:
20-30 seconds on a B&S. Feed, drill, tap, cutoff. The first part that I learned on (and stopped making soon after) was a 1" x 2" bushing out of 12L14 and he sold it for .89 in runs of 1000. As I reviewed the books I saw the material was > .50. Ouch.

Also I'm no expert on the internal thread and so there may be an extra step to face after the cut to ensure a good thread start, etc. Only been doing this for a few months.

I hope that you take a little more time to bid your B&S jobs in the future.

Was you going to spot drill that thing?

What fer drill was you expecting to use?
I just figgered it up with a standard type Titex Super 22 parabolic drill @ 17 seconds "in the cut". Of course you would need to pull it out to at least re-lube and cool a cpl times.

You are planning on tapping on a Brownie eh?
You have 4 speed machines there I hope?
Because while tapping on a G machine is possible, it is also an act of congress, and requires everything else on the job to be LH tooling.

Add the cost of a new lead cam...
Unless you can pull one from the wall that can peck drill this deep and tap that deep?

I dont see $1 being worth it for anyone at that volume. Sure, if the volume was higher I could toss it on a multi-spindle and run it for less than that yet, but then there would be several whiners crying about "race to the bottom" because they couldn't compete on their chucker machines...
:nopity:

Heck - I got beat out onna job that I bid <$.04 on recently...
Another process was more efficient.

---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

proturn · Nov 17, 2012

dkmc said:
I don't have the print right here, but I -think- the mat. spec was actually 1010-1020CRS

He said "he was told" the material was .63 each (my mat. price came in at .34 for 1018) and that the best price they have seen (on 750) is $1.12 each.

So .49 each for overhead, labor and profit....

I think I'd rather "coast" to the bottom a little slower than that IF possible.....and "hit" a little "softer" too please....?

Also curious and should have asked in first post....whats your best estimate or guesstimate
on the cycle time?

On a 2 Axis lathe I figured 90 seconds each plus 1.5hr setup charge. There was a added upcharge for general fu#$^%*& around getting it to work. Nothing too crazy and as a side note; definetly not my specialty either

proturn · Nov 17, 2012

Ox said:
I hope that you take a little more time to bid your B&S jobs in the future.

Was you going to spot drill that thing?

What fer drill was you expecting to use?
I just figgered it up with a standard type Titex Super 22 parabolic drill @ 17 seconds "in the cut". Of course you would need to pull it out to at least re-lube and cool a cpl times.

You are planning on tapping on a Brownie eh?
You have 4 speed machines there I hope?
Because while tapping on a G machine is possible, it is also an act of congress, and requires everything else on the job to be LH tooling.

Add the cost of a new lead cam...
Unless you can pull one from the wall that can peck drill this deep and tap that deep?

I dont see $1 being worth it for anyone at that volume. Sure, if the volume was higher I could toss it on a multi-spindle and run it for less than that yet, but then there would be several whiners crying about "race to the bottom" because they couldn't compete on their chucker machines...

Heck - I got beat out onna job that I bid <$.04 on recently...
Another process was more efficient.

---------------------

Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Times like those OX, purchasers need to be punched in the nose! There is no loyalty in this "bidness"

Ox · Nov 17, 2012

proturn said:
Times like those OX, purchasers need to be punched in the nose! There is no loyalty in this "bidness"

I don't follow, sorry...

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Think Snow Eh!
Ox

Price check!.......tell me your opinions on this part quote.

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