Thread: what do u expect from someone asking for 20 plus per hour!!

Originally Posted by Greg White

Gorden Yeah Union brothers and sisters usally make way more than the non Union folks. But the Republicans and rush have convinced joe six pack small mind that Unions are bad.
Gw

Grog, do you keep spelling my name wrong on purpose?

No, thanks for pointing that out,spelling is difficult for me.
sorry
Gw

Originally Posted by Greg White

No, thanks for pointing that out,spelling is difficult for me.
sorry
Gw

Greg, no problem I've been called much worse You can call me just about anything you want except "George" LOL

Gordon

I don't understand this trade. I've been building homes for 20 years and usually make a little better that 20, sometimes much more. I have learned in detail every trade needed to put up a building. However, over the past few years the things I have learned about machining is so much more complicated, challenging, detailed, harder in every way than home construction, obviously. Most of the guys I have worked with over the years have a hard time adding their hours at the end of the week... no way they could preform a little trig, even with a math teacher, scientific cal, and a trig handbook. Why do us idiots in construction make comparable money to machinist? Seriously.

Steve a

Originally Posted by lowCountryCamo

I don't understand this trade. I've been building homes for 20 years and usually make a little better that 20, sometimes much more. I have learned in detail every trade needed to put up a building. However, over the past few years the things I have learned about machining is so much more complicated, challenging, detailed, harder in every way than home construction, obviously. Most of the guys I have worked with over the years have a hard time adding their hours at the end of the week... no way they could preform a little trig, even with a math teacher, scientific cal, and a trig handbook. Why do us idiots in construction make comparable money to machinist? Seriously.

Steve a

They have to work physically harder and work outside. You're overestating the difficulty of being a machinist. It can be difficult, but there are plenty of machinist jobs that don't require that much from people. Any guy that has decent mechanical aptitude and gives half a shit can do it.

In construction, at least in my area, from what I've seen there's none of the competition that shops have beating each other over pennies.

Guy" what's you rate?"
Carpenter "$30/hr"
Guy "How long you figure?"
Carpenter " 40hrs"
Guy " so about how much?"
Carpenter " $12,000 "

Then again the boss usually pockets most of it and still doesn't pay the guys nearly as much as they could. But its still better than machining, difference is there's not much $ in machining, and quite frankly many places that do well still don't pay much for whatever reason. Just nature of it I guess.
I was a bit surprised when I found out my excavator guy was getting $15/hr with about 15yrs experience, they had no problem billing me $125 and 200something for hammer time.

With that said, roofing guys are way underpaid no matter what they make, man that's one crazy hard effing job.

Originally Posted by lowCountryCamo

I don't understand this trade. I've been building homes for 20 years and usually make a little better that 20, sometimes much more. I have learned in detail every trade needed to put up a building. However, over the past few years the things I have learned about machining is so much more complicated, challenging, detailed, harder in every way than home construction, obviously. Most of the guys I have worked with over the years have a hard time adding their hours at the end of the week... no way they could preform a little trig, even with a math teacher, scientific cal, and a trig handbook. Why do us idiots in construction make comparable money to machinist? Seriously.

Steve a

Present time excempted part of the reason could be that houses are regarded as investments by those wanting to live in one plus location plays a major part of how much the price is. I doubt very much if the not so good construction workers are doing great at the moment.

Originally Posted by lowCountryCamo

I don't understand this trade. I've been building homes for 20 years and usually make a little better that 20, sometimes much more. I have learned in detail every trade needed to put up a building. However, over the past few years the things I have learned about machining is so much more complicated, challenging, detailed, harder in every way than home construction, obviously. Most of the guys I have worked with over the years have a hard time adding their hours at the end of the week... no way they could preform a little trig, even with a math teacher, scientific cal, and a trig handbook. Why do us idiots in construction make comparable money to machinist? Seriously.

Steve a

Pretty simple, the contractor (Carpenter's boss) is only competing locally for work, a machinist's boss (Shop Owner) is competing globally for work. The more competition the more downward pressure on wage rates compared to skill level.

Originally Posted by Dualkit

Pretty simple, the contractor (Carpenter's boss) is only competing locally for work, a machinist's boss (Shop Owner) is competing globally for work. The more competition the more downward pressure on wage rates compared to skill level.

And everyone can appreciate a building of some sort, "built like a brick ........house" is a compliment.

But that chunk of metal sitting on the buyer's desk? "How come so much?"

Perhaps in less industrialized countries that chunk of metal would have greater value, but the U.S. has square miles of scrapyards of interesting chunks of metal.

I was privy to a recent blind comparison of quotes, the vendors were all cheaper than the customer's in-house cost. Well, all but one vendor...

Originally Posted by Greg White

Gorden Yeah Union brothers and sisters usally make way more than the non Union folks. But the Republicans and rush have convinced joe six pack small mind that Unions are bad.
Gw

From what I have seen and experienced personally, Unions have done it to themselves. I am not anti-union. I believe they have a place. But I believe they need to be reformed. Too much waste in the last places I seen that were Unionized. My father and ex-brother-n-law , were both union men hardcore, so I have seen quite a bit of the good and the bad.

Originally Posted by toolmaker

From what I have seen and experienced personally, Unions have done it to themselves. I am not anti-union. I believe they have a place. But I believe they need to be reformed. Too much waste in the last places I seen that were Unionized. My father and ex-brother-n-law , were both union men hardcore, so I have seen quite a bit of the good and the bad.

I'll agree on the fact that for quite some time now unions seem to be their own worst enemy. When any union starts to feel more important than its members then the downhill slide has started.

Here union membership is declining and top union bosses (with their huge wages) seem to be getting further and further away from the realities members face daily. The decline will probably continue until (or if) employers get just as inconsiderate as union top brass.

In my area, if I went back on the job market with a bit over 10yrs and twice the regular hours in that time... plus being certified as a welder. I doubt many places would put down a cent more than $20, maybe a couple at 22-23, if anything I'd be a treat and unemployable since I've run my own shop full time the last 6yrs. And quite frankly I'd rather go flip burgers.
The only people who I know that went out to Alberta for the oil money, and came back, were machinists, and all say it didn't pay worth a crap out there either compared to the other trades. Welders, truckers, and so on do better.

The hourly rate has nothing to do with what the employee agreed to do regardless of pay! A man or woman hires on to do a job they either perform according to instruction or hit the bricks!

I will put in that in my area of North Carolina, a decent Tool&Diemaker starts at on probation period for $18-$20. That seems to be the rate. I can do all of the things the original OP wanted, plus I am well versed in different fields of Tool&Die( card carrying journeyman if anybody cares) and make more than $23 an hr, plus I get to work in the AC. So I am happy. Got a great boss most of the time, and I get to work without anybody harpin at me. He leaves me alone as I know what I am doing and he knows it.

Originally Posted by toolmaker

I will put in that in my area of North Carolina, a decent Tool&Diemaker starts at on probation period for $18-$20. That seems to be the rate. I can do all of the things the original OP wanted, plus I am well versed in different fields of Tool&Die( card carrying journeyman if anybody cares) and make more than $23 an hr, plus I get to work in the AC. So I am happy. Got a great boss most of the time, and I get to work without anybody harpin at me. He leaves me alone as I know what I am doing and he knows it.

What was the T&D Maker earning 10 yrs ago?.... 20yrs ago??..... 30 yrs ago??

As a Patternmaker I am not so as sure about machinist rates around here currently. But a friend of mine who was a tool and die maker was making about $30 as a lead hand at a big tool and die shop doing automotive dies about 5 or 6 years ago. He was on the higher end but journeyman tool and die makers with 2 or three years experience after their apprenticeship were making $24-28/hour at the shop he was working at. (non union) The recession started and they were hiring journeyman tool and die makers for $19/hr.

He was laid off and went back to school to finish a degree he had been working on at night school so is now out of the trade.

Originally Posted by Gary E

What was the T&D Maker earning 10 yrs ago?.... 20yrs ago??..... 30 yrs ago??

The same or more, good old global economy. Worse yet due to technology advancements the worker is more productive than ever. On my last job before self employment in 1994 I was making $27.69 hr with full benefits, non union medical device shop. I was a working leadman in the CNC lathe department, 40 man shop in Orange County California. I have three friends doing close to the same thing today and they make around $26 an hour.

The local paper had a quote by the Technical School near here. They said the people being hired after completeing a machine tool operation course made an average of $18.75, and all were hired.
The same paper had a $26.00 an hour maintenance man offer.

Not as off track as it might sound.

It isn't how much you get paid as it is about what you can do with what you can get with it.

What kind of life would someone in the USA expect to have with $20 an hour?

How about $30? Much difference?

Both with a workweek of max 40 hours.

Gordon

7 yrs ago, I was making more than what I am now, but I was also supervisor of the toolroom back then. When i moved to a different state, I went "back on the floor" so to say.

In 6 months at the new job, they moved me to supervisor of their secondary machining and stamping departments. Within 3 months I gave it back to them. Cant do much with my hands tied, and had no real backiing from the uppers. Wasnt worth any amount of money to deal with those headaches. They wanted to start doing JIT, but they werent even up to speed on what they were doing then as far as today's standards.